How to Get More Sales without Selling


Chalene Johnson:   My name is Chalene Johnson. And today I have with me my special guest and my husband, Bret Johnson. And we want to talk those of you who are in business. Today’s topic is really ideal for anyone who has a business, has a personal brand, has an idea for a business, maybe you’re in multi-level marketing, maybe you own a business, a physical location. And what we want to help you do is something that I think most people worry about, and they stress about, and that is sales.

Bret Johnson:            Uh-huh.

Chalene Johnson:   And almost everyone’s says, “I hate” – I mean everyone’s why – and there’s some that says, “I love selling.”

Bret Johnson:            Yeah. Every once in a while or that they or just kind of like good at


Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            And they are in it, and they are doing sales.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            Like you walk – once you walk into a store and like, you know, that’s a sales person and they’re really good at it.

Chalene Johnson:   Uh-huh.

Bret Johnson:            We’re not talking of those people, we’re talking about the people that like – I would go in a business for myself right now, or I’d be better at my business if I could just sell. We’re going to talk to you of people that just don’t like it.

Chalene Johnson:   Right. So that’s what we’re going to share with you is some strategies that are going to allow you to get more sales without selling. How does that sound? I hope it sounds exceptional especially to those of you who don’t love selling but obviously – I mean let’s face it you guys, we’re – you need to be able to make sales to stay in business. Otherwise what you have is an expensive hobby.

Bret Johnson:            Yeah. This – this red bottoms aren’t buying themselves, people.

Chalene Johnson:   Bret Johnson. So one thing I think is really going to be exciting for all of you, is to know that you don’t have to sell. And as a matter of fact, I think the people who are probably the most successful in any business, in any endeavor, are the people who – they aren’t selling, they’re influencing people. And they are – they’re taking care of people and it comes from their heart. And they’re – because selling is something you almost feel like you’re manipulated into buying. When we think of a sales person, we feel like we’ve been conned, or talked into something, or hoodwinked. And I think someone who’s very passionate and filled with purpose, they don’t have to sell. But for whatever reason, we still, uh, you know, it still freaks us out when we think about that moment when you have to ask for the sales. So what we’re going to do is share with you a really cool concept, that I want you to think of not as a testimonial, but as highlighting your customers. So if ever you’ve watched a late night Infomercial, you know that what the majority of a late night Infomercial is comprised of, is testimonials.

Bret Johnson:            Testimonials.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            Very – you hear very few words from the person that actually created the object program, you know, widget that they are selling in that 30-minutes. You very rarely hear from that person. You see him in maybe operating the thing, but…

Chalene Johnson:   Uh-huh. Or their story.

Bret Johnson:            Or their story.

Chalene Johnson:   The story behind why they created this solution. Why they – they knew – almost every time you watch an Infomercial, you’ll hear from the creator, and they’ll talk about their problem and why they needed to find a solution and how this thing that you’re watching on television show on right now, was the solution. And so that’s kind of the why, the why they created this thing. And that story is really important, but that’s not what gets people to pick up the phone. What gets people to pick up the phone, is seeing and hearing from other people who that solution has helped.

So – and I think what most people fail to understand is that, you know, asking somebody if you have permission to highlight their story, is the ultimate compliment. I mean believe it or not, I bring new people all the time, and they’re like, “Uh, I’m so bombed. I submitted a story about how your program help me and I was hoping it was going to be in the Infomercial and I didn’t make the Infomercial.” And I’m like, “Wow, this person cares so much about helping other people understand how this could help them, that they’re literally bombed that their testimonial wasn’t in the Infomercial.” So for whatever reason as entrepreneurs, we feel like it’s a burden to ask our customers, “Honey, if I hear you swallow, this ends.” It’s my pet peeve. We’ve been married for 20 years, but I like, you know why…

Bret Johnson:            Did you hear me swallow?

Chalene Johnson:   I didn’t, but I like – my anxiety level went up because I knew you were going to swallow loud.

Bret Johnson:            I’ll make it up for you later.

Chalene Johnson:   Okay. Where were we?

Bret Johnson:            I don’t know.

Chalene Johnson:   Where were we?

Bret Johnson:            We are talking about how we – watching late night infomercial, the reason why they put testimonials in there is – and you don’t hear from like the creator or the person that invented the widget is that, they want people that are selling this product, want you to see yourself in that person that’s telling the story – like I lost this weight, like I was a stay-at-home mom. I was running kids around to soccer practice, and I just couldn’t figure out the time to eat and dah-dah-dah-dah-dah. And I found this program and voilà and then all of a sudden that person that’s watching that, is a stay-at-home mom. And they just took Suzy to soccer practice. And they’re like, “Wow, that’s me, and so if this person can do it, using this program, so can I.”

Chalene Johnson:   Right.

Bret Johnson:            And then they bought it.

Chalene Johnson:   And that’s very powerful.

Bret Johnson:            Yes. Very powerful, especially when you really see…

Chalene Johnson:   Yourself.

Bret Johnson:            …when you see yourself inside that testimonial like even if it’s just a little part of it, it grabs that person and that – that’s why they do focus groups on testimonials to see like what testimonials is strongest and which one pulls the most and what part of the testimonial pulls the most so…

Chalene Johnson:   So if you want to have more sales and you don’t want to have to sell, good because you shouldn’t be selling. You should be highlighting your – the people who you’ve helped, and in doing so, you will sell so much more. We’re going to give you some tips. Tip #1, is you have to – are you ready for this? Are you guys taking notes?

Bret Johnson:            That you have to acknowledge that you have helped people like you have to – you have to like take ownership that yes, you have helped somebody even if you aren’t currently in business right now and you’re thinking about taking that leap of faith, and starting your own business. You’ve helped somebody in that business. You wouldn’t be creating that business if you weren’t already kind of doing it on the side, or people have told you like, “Hey, you should really do this.”

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah. Given the example that we talked about like with the makeup?

Bret Johnson:            Yeah. Like let’s say you were like somebody did like makeup for all of your girlfriends. Okay. And you were really good at it. And every time like the next morning you get a text message, you’re like, “Thank you so much for doing my makeup. I got so many compliments at the wedding for…”

Chalene Johnson:   I looked like a million bucks.

Bret Johnson:            …bucks and gosh, you made me look so young and my husband made a comment like, “You – you look fabulous” and – just whatever it is, maybe you haven’t created that business yet, but those are testimonials, those are people that have reached back to and said, “You did an amazing job.”

Chalene Johnson:   So you can use testimonials even – if that were someone who is, you know, as a hobby putting makeup on people, and then, you know, a couple years later, they decide to start a business related to that. You can go back to the people who you helped with, that relates to what it is you’re doing now and ask them for a testimonial.

Tip #2, is to make a list of the first people who come to mind who you know you’ve helped them. Just make a list like, oh, you know, and you know who they are because they are, like Bret said, the people who sent you a text. They are the people who, you know.

Bret Johnson:            Maybe you are in business and like it’s a repeat customer.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            It’s a person that’s always show – if you have something to sell or you, you know, it’s your business – now, we’re not just talking about  like online businesses. We’re talking about brick and mortar. We’re talking about like physical locations. I mean if you own a restaurant and you’re not using – I mean what do you think Yelp is, right? If you’re not using people that are coming back to your restaurant all the time and saying, “Hey, would you mind?” Repeat customers over and over and over again.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            Make a list.

Chalene Johnson:   Make a list. Because people are so – they’re so honored. I don’t know why we have this thought in our head that if we ask someone to share their story, that it’s burden or that like what – they’re doing us a favor. Because that’s not the case. What happens when someone allows you to tell your story is what they’re saying is, “I want to highlight you. I want to share, you know, with all my potential customers your story.” And so it is not a burden, it’s the ultimate compliment when – I know it’s a compliment when someone reaches out to me. For example, like Bryan Tracy or Brandon Bouchard, you know, when they’ve reached out to me and said, “Hey, you know, you’re one of our star students, would you be willing to make a testimonial?” I was like, “Absolutely. Where do I send it in?” like it’s a compliment and you have to remember that, it is a compliment when somebody is proud of you and they ask you to share your story.

Bret Johnson:            There’s a really funny story about you doing a testimonial for Bryan Tracy.

Chalene Johnson:   There is?

Bret Johnson:            Remember you went through that speaking – the writer speaking?

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            And they had you go up and do a testimonial live.

Chalene Johnson:   Oh, that’s a whole another story.

Bret Johnson:            Alright.

Chalene Johnson:   We don’t have time for that in this, but we could do it another one.

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   Maybe you’ll come back and join me again.

Bret Johnson:            Maybe.

Chalene Johnson:   Maybe? Hmm. Do you want to do number 3?

Bret Johnson:            Oh, so if you are having maybe trouble making that list or once you’ve already made that list of people, the next spot to look in, tip #3, is, go to your social media sites, okay. And that also could be your inbox. I know it’s not social media, but go to your inbox to where people have like sent you an email about like how fabulous you are, or your product is, or whatever your service is, or whatever. So tip #3 is check your inbox and your social media sites, so email and, you know, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

Chalene Johnson:   And you know, I think people…

Bret Johnson:            I don’t think you’re going to get – I don’t think you’re going to get testimonial snippet from Snapchat.

Chalene Johnson:   You’re right. That’ll be weird.

Bret Johnson:            Probably not. That’ll be weird.

Chalene Johnson:   Well maybe – yeah, you could, you could.

Bret Johnson:            Just hopefully they use your real face and not a like a little emoji.

Chalene Johnson:   True.

Bret Johnson:            What do they call those characters? Characters?

Chalene Johnson:   Filters.

Bret Johnson:            Filters? Filters. Okay.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah. But that leads me to tip #4 which is social proof. So a lot of times people will leave you a compliment. They will say, you know, “Working with you has changed my life. I’ve – I learned so much from you in the one year that we spent together, or you know, the way you cut my hair is unlike anyone else” or you know, whatever the compliment is, oftentimes, we communicate with each other via social media. That’s public, it’s a public platform. If I’m going to your page, your public page, and I’m typing in – in the comments, “Barbara, I cannot thank you enough for the time, the devotion and the dedication that you have spent working with the master trainers. They have become such a cohesive group,” and I’m leaving a public compliment on your social media platform. Basically what I’m doing is saying, I’m telling the world right now, I’m not send this to your phone. I’m not sending it to you privately. I’m publicly telling the world and singing your praises. And so that’s what is known as social proof. And when that happens, that person is not only giving you permission, they’re telling you. I want to tell the world. Screenshot that, people. Screenshot it. And that, you guys know how to take a screenshot, right? That exact screenshot can then be copied and pasted onto your website, into your webinar, many places.

Bret Johnson:            #5, we’re in #5, right?

Chalene Johnson:   Yes, sir.

Bret Johnson:            Okay. So now you get a great one, right? You’re reading on social media or an email, right? You want to reach out to that person, and ask them to go a little deeper. What do we mean by that? You probably should formulate some questions like, you know a questionnaire or something like that, and ask them a little bit what life was before you came into their life with an amazing product, service, program, whatever it is, and what is life afterwards, after they came through and you know, did whatever you – whatever your service is. That is flipping huge when you can start reaching out for those people. And you do it, don’t let somebody else do it.

Chalene Johnson:   Why is that?

Bret Johnson:            Because if you – you’re the person that’s helped change this person’s life. They wrote about you. They took the time out to write an email, go in your social media site, and give you a written testimonial. And when you read a really good one and you’re like, “I think I’ve really helped this person” or they’re constantly reaching out to you, and you just give them a phone call or just next time – I love to send you a questionnaire. I’d love to get your cellphone number, you know, do it through DM or whatever, in social media and just say, “I’d love to reach out, talk to you about giving me a testimonial, one that goes a little a bit deeper.” They don’t know that it might be deeper, but you are going to – you‘re requesting something like that, and then that way, you can get really specific in a questionnaire. And like…

Chalene Johnson:   So this is a bonus tip based on what Bret just said, “It’s a little asterisk.” And this is just my opinion…

Bret Johnson:            We’re giving bonus tips?

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            Oh, boy.

Chalene Johnson:   This is just my opinion, I don’t think you should use the word “testimonial” because – I don’t know, I think that word is a weird thing right? Like, because really what you’re doing is you’re asking people to share their story. And that’s what I would call it. I would say, “Would you be so kind as to share your story? I would love to inspire others with the results that you’ve had. And so, I’d love to get a little bit more of yours story.” I would then send them an email and say, “Hey, I need to go deeper. So that I can get a better testimonial for you, and I get more sales.” I would say, “Listen you know, what you’ve share with me thus far is so inspirational. And listen, I want to help more people, and I think your story can help me do that, I want to know more.”

                                    And then, like Bret said, “Get those specifics.” Like okay, what was is like before, or how are you different from working with somebody else, or what is it about your studio that’s different from the studio down the street?

Bret Johnson:            So yeah. So I think number five, since it’s more or less it’s almost like a paragraph, that we talked about…


Chalene Johnson:   Uh-huh.

Bret Johnson:            …so specifically, number five is just to reach out and try to get a little bit more valuable testimonials.

Chalene Johnson:   Okay. And so what kind of information should people be looking for, when they’re going deeper?

Bret Johnson:            Measurables.

Chalene Johnson:   What does mean?

Bret Johnson:            So for instance, let say, it’s a weight thing.  So you might want to talk about before, I weighed this much or I had this many inches to lose, and after doing your program, I did this. Maybe, you are challenge groups for like fitness and stuff like that. So maybe before I worked with this person, I just couldn’t get my eating down. And then you have this system, and it changed my life.

Chalene Johnson:   Oh, that’s good.

Bret Johnson:            So very specific. So that like, people could put themselves. So think about like, what we talked about the beginning, about the TV Infomercial. Think about putting somebody else in their shoes…

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            So you want that, you want something measurable. If it’s a financial service or something like that, you’re going to help them with their finance, how much money did you save them? How much money did they earn by doing your program?

Chalene Johnson:   I think that’s perfect. I would say, those measurable, the most common ones are specifically, money…

Bret Johnson:            Yup.

Chalene Johnson:   …and time, so like, how much time did you save them? How much money did you save them? How much frustration did you save them? And be as specific as possible.

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   Number 6, is video. There is nothing more powerful than video. Now, it think it is very powerful to screenshot social media because that social proof, it’s like proof. Anybody, you know, you’ve probably been to websites before where it says, Sally H. in Colorado says, blah blah blah, and when you see that, you’re like does Sally H. really even exists?

Bret Johnson:            Yeah, yeah. Who’s Sally H.?

Chalene Johnson:   Right? Like who is Sally H.?

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   And how do I research her?

Bret Johnson:            I can’t Google Sally H.

Chalene Johnson:   No. I can’t. People find her.

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   So I think, it’s really, really powerful to get video testimonials. Now, we’re not going to go into great detail about the type of video testimonials that we create for our programs. We do so inside the Marketing Impact Academy, we teach our students exactly, step by step how we get our testimonials, how we produce them, how we craft them, how we story arc, but I don’t think the average person listening…

Bret Johnson:            And to begin with, you don’t really need it right off the bat.

Chalene Johnson:   Sure.

Bret Johnson:            You know, you have to get good  at steps 1 through 5.

Chalene Johnson:   Yes, yes.

Bret Johnson:            If you can get really good at steps 1 through 5, then the video part will become a lot easier.

Chalene Johnson:   I agree.

Bret Johnson:            If you skip straight to video, you’re going to screw it up.

Chalene Johnson:   Probably, and waste some money.

Bret Johnson:            And you waste some money, and you’ll probably waste – what potentially could have been a good testimonial.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah. And by that, we mean, you producing the testimonial. So like just spoiler alert, what we do, when we know that one of our students has had a remarkable transformation, that they have taken their business from losing money to making a million dollars in less than nine months. And that’s a story that we want other people to hear. We want them to be inspired by their story. So we’ll send out our own film crews, we’ll capture behind the scenes, and there’s a lot to that. But what I want to share with you, as Bret said, Is the next best step for you to master, and that is asking the person whose story it is you want to highlight, to make their own video, from their phone. And don’t worry about it being perfect because it will not be perfect. You will not likely, nor should you use it in its entirety. But if you just let them talk directly to camera and just say, “Turn on your camera,” as Bret like usually will tell people, “Have a cocktail,” So they loosen up, because people get nervous when they’re on camera…

Bret Johnson:            Yes.

Chalene Johnson:   We don’t, but people do. And then just tell your story on camera. Now, you likely will get back from that person, along very flattering but perhaps quite rambling with a lot of extra detail that doesn’t need to be in there that would bore people if they watch it from the beginning to end…

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   Guess what you need? One sentence.

Bret Johnson:            Yeah.

Chalene Johnson:   So you get five videos from five people. And if you can get one sentence from every one of them…

Bret Johnson:            Yeah. If you can get 10 seconds from each one of them, now, you have 50 seconds of five different people. What is – isn’t Instagram video now like 60 seconds?

Chalene Johnson:   Yes.

Bret Johnson:            Oh, my gosh.

Chalene Johnson:   Also known as a minute.

Bret Johnson:            There you go.

Chalene Johnson:   It’s perfect.

Bret Johnson:            Do you feel like a – you put like a little intro, a little ending, and little videos in the middle and you got yourself you know…

Chalene Johnson:   A killer testimonial…

Bret Johnson:            Yeah. Killer

Chalene Johnson:   So  don’t worry, you know, just remember, testimonials need to be like sound bytes, short, and quick and to the point. And they really, really need to help people overcome their own objections. So you know why people object to whatever it is that you offer. You know the number one reason why people go, “Yeah, I don’t know.” So if you can address those objections, in one quick little sound byte from your best testimonials, my friends, you have gold. Our seventh and final tip for you as it comes to testimonials, is …

Bret Johnson:            I don’t even know this one.

Chalene Johnson:   It’s actually not a tip, it’s a question. And that question is, and I’ll let you answer it, but everyone always says, “Where should I be using testimonials?” And the answer is…

Bret Johnson:            You should be using your testimonials on your website, you should be using them on your social media sites. So you can put them on your Facebook page, you could put them on Instagram. You could put them in Twitter, a link to it, and you could also do it on like print ads. You know, like if you’re on a physical location, you know, you could – you know, those are the ones you know , obvious, you can’t put a video out there, but you know, definitely have pictures of people of their before and afters or just quotes of people out there.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah. I think the bottom line, the simple answer to that question is, you should be using them everywhere. It’s like your highlighting the work, the effort, the results of the people who you helped. And everybody wants to be highlighted, everybody wants to be recognized, and that’s powerful for you, then you never have to sell. You know, if you’re really good at sharing testimonials, you never have to sell. We have a waiting list for the Marketing Impact Academy. We don’t open the doors until it’s time.

And we don’t have to sell it because there’s so many people whose stories we’ve shared. And when we do that, it’s  an honor to them, because then their social media following goes up, their business do better. And then they have that credibility and that recognition. And for us, there’s no one who we want to promote more than our own students it’s like a coach, right?

Bret Johnson:            We highlighted a testimonial this past Marketing Impact Academy, had his testimonial run like three or four times.  And I asked him afterwards I said like, “How much did your IG go up? Because we highlighted his IG page.”

Chalene Johnson:   Uh-huh.

Bret Johnson:            And he said, “It went up like 4 thousand in like ten days.” How many people would like their – you know, as a benefit of giving great testimonial of something that worked, all of a sudden, 4,000 more concentrated eyeballs on what you’re doing…

Chalene Johnson:   But it is a lot like a coach. I try to give you that little – I like tossed to you one that’s like right up your alley and you didn’t even bite on. I was like I gave you like I gave it to you…

Bret Johnson:            Why are you being weird?

Chalene Johnson:   I’m not being weird.  I’m saying, like a theory of the coaching analogy.

Bret Johnson:            What coaching analogy?

Chalene Johnson:   Like a coach wants his player…

Bret Johnson:            To do great. I mean, that’s the – I know what you’re saying now.

Chalene Johnson:   Amateur hour.

Bret Johnson:            Alright. So for like instance – like when I coach, my greatest joy in coaching was to see my quarterbacks and my players excel, move forward, and go – get an award, or get a scholarship…

Chalene Johnson:   Get a scholarship.

Bret Johnson:            …or you know, I got a few of them playing in the NFL, so I mean it’s just – that’s the reward to me. I love that.

Chalene Johnson:   Yeah.

Bret Johnson:            You root for those people.

Chalene Johnson:   You want your – the people who’ve been like good students of yours, you work so hard to promote them, and to see them excel, and to lift them up. And that’s really what you’re doing when you’re sharing their story. Now, you can call it a testimonial but I truly believe it is the best way to highlight the efforts of a student who paid attention. Right? So we’re not going to talk about our MIA students who you know, quit after two weeks, because my heart isn’t in, and maybe they’ll get back into it, but my heart, the people who I want to like lift, up are the people who are like they devoted themselves, they took the coaching, they listened to their coach, they took the corrections, and they did it, and they worked. And that’s who you want to promote.

Bret Johnson:            My favorite ones because we all have different favorite testimonials, my favorite testimonials that come out of our programs, are the ones that you never hear from. Like they just go and they do their shit.

Chalene Johnson:   Huh! Don’t say that word.

Bret Johnson:            Okay, I’m sorry. So those are my favorite. The ones that get through all the modules, start applying what they’ve learned because it works, people…

Chalene Johnson:   Yup.

Bret Johnson:            …it works, and they started applying it. And then all of a sudden, like seven months later. You get a text message, you get an email, “Hey, I just – you know, I have finished MIA, and I’m applying it to my business, and oh my gosh, business has doubled. Oh my gosh,  I’m doing so well that last year I didn’t know what I was doing, and now I’m up a hundred percent.” Unbelievable, I love those people that like just go and they get it done, and then they come back express like what the program did for them. Those are my favorite.

Chalene Johnson:   To end this. I want to just let you know that this is a primary focus for us. Maybe about 18 months ago, we realized what was sitting right in front of us was the opportunity to highlight our students, and to have more sales, and to sell less. And so we not only focused our time, our money, and our resources into it, we really now just scour and root for, and track our own students’ progress because testimonials are that powerful. Our final piece of advice to all of you, is to spend some time tomorrow, spend 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and really do some searching, some researching, some digging, some investigating, some, writing down on paper, of people who are  your best testimonials.

Bret Johnson:            Why tomorrow for 10 minutes? I mean, if synchronized swimming is on in the Olympics, watch it, do it during that time. Like if synchronized swimming comes on, you got 10 to 15 minutes…

Chalene Johnson:   You’re assuming that people don’t like synchronized swimming.

Bret Johnson:            It’s not a sport. So…

Chalene Johnson:   It is pretty much a sport though.

Bret Johnson:            No, it’s not. Come on. Now, come on…

Chalene Johnson:   You’re going to offend some people. There’s probably someone out here who tries her daughter every morning at 4 am to synchronized swimming and she’s going to be like, “Oh, really?”

Bret Johnson:            I’m not everybody’s cup of tea.

Chalene Johnson:   No, you’re not.

Bret Johnson:            I’m okay with that. I’m okay with that. If you’re down with synchronized swimming, be down with synchronized swimming, but  I’m  just telling you, that might be a good  time to check your social media sites, to get a  couple testimonial people on their, do a little homework – you’re not going to miss anything. I’m just throwing that out there.

Chalene Johnson:   Okay, that’s great advice.  Thank you so much for joining us on this addition of Build Your Tribe with my special guest.

Bret Johnson:            Bret Johnson.

Chalene Johnson:   Will you come back and do this again with me?

Bret Johnson:            Of course.

Chalene Johnson:   Excellent. It’s my goal to be brief, to be bright, to make it fun, and then be done.  We done, yo!

leave me a message about this episode

Send a voice message to Chalene

Is your microphone ready?

Powered by SpeakPipe