Time Blindness Isn’t Rude, It’s Your Brain Plus Patrick Clancy on 60 Minutes

[00:00:00] Chalene Johnson : Hey, before we get too far, I know I’ve talked a lot about the supplements that I take in powder form. There’s a lot of them, and there’s, of course, the things I take in capsule form, but I also take a few things in gummy form. And one of the things that I started taking about a year ago, actually when we were in Europe last year, is saffron.

[00:00:21] Chalene Johnson : And I started taking it because I heard about quite a few studies that demonstrated that saffron made significant improvements in people’s– their ability to reduce their anxiety, to feel more relaxed, to have mental clarity, and of course, that’s gonna improve your sleep, right? Because that’s one of the main reasons why so many of us struggle to sleep at night.

[00:00:47] Chalene Johnson : You lay down and your brain just doesn’t stop spinning. So anyways, I looked into it. You know me, I love to see a good study, and there’s been a ton of them. In fact, April through July twenty twenty-five, this is brand new, a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study looking at the impact of taking saffron daily for just three months, and the results I can tell you were pretty astonishing.

[00:01:16] Chalene Johnson : A marked decrease in depression, anxiety, and stress. Seventy-two point three percent of the participants in the saffron group achieved significant improvements on their mental state. So talking about having less anxiety, and of course, that I think is one of the reasons why it contributes to fewer sleep disturbances for those especially who are taking the saffron.

[00:01:39] Chalene Johnson : So listen, I’m definitely not telling you to go off your SSRIs, and if you’re on an antidepressant, that’s awesome. But if you’re one of those people who you’ve been thinking like, “I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, I just… I don’t feel as happy as I usually am,” or, “I just feel kinda meh,” you know what I’m talking about.

[00:01:56] Chalene Johnson : You can’t put your finger on it, but you’re like, “I’m just not as happy,” or, “Maybe I’m dealing with more anxiety,” or, “Things are bugging me more than they usually do.” You’ve heard me talk about Organifi for years, and Organifi came out with a saffron gummy that’s actually very, very tasty. So I am going to encourage you, if, if you’re already a customer of Organifi, next time you go to place an order, go to organifi.com/chalene.

[00:02:24] Chalene Johnson : Use code CHALENE. That always gets you twenty percent off. I take their Immunity daily. I take Pure daily. I take their collagen daily. All of these things are on the regular, and again, I started taking the Happy Drops. I don’t take those daily, but I’d say I take them, like, three, four times a week And I’ve noticed a difference.

[00:02:48] Chalene Johnson : So I want you to check them out. Try them the next time you’re over at Organifi, or just go there right now. Go to organifi.com/chalene. You get 20% off when you use code Chalene, and we love Organifi. So it’s O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/chalene for 20% off. Update in the Lindsay Clancy case. We’re gonna talk a little bit about how criminals use the justice system to their advantage, and put off the notion of a speedy trial, and delay the start of a hearing or trial for years and years and years, and how that is possible.

[00:03:26] Chalene Johnson : Speaking of delays, if you are someone who struggles to be on time, or you’re married to, or your best friend is someone who it just makes you so angry, for whatever reason cannot show up on time, and it is so frustrating. Or you are the person who struggles to get your butt in gear and walk through the door a couple minutes early, and you’ve struggled with this for a long time, this is your episode.

[00:03:55] Chalene Johnson : We’re all gonna come together. So whether you are the person who’s early or the person who’s chronically late, this is an episode that’s gonna help you relate to the people you love. We’ve got a lot to cover today, including a little up- bit of an update on the story I shared on Wednesday regarding the AI and the robots are all gonna kill us.

[00:04:16] Chalene Johnson : That and so much more here today on The Chalene Show. I’m super grateful that you’re here spending time with me. Let’s get to it. So apparently Patrick Clancy, Lindsay Clancy’s husband, and his new wife, Rachel, will make an appearance this weekend, Sunday, on 60 Minutes. That’s wild. Here’s the thing, mark my words, has not been released yet.

[00:04:44] Chalene Johnson : When that happens, I don’t even know why they’re doing it, because no matter what he says or how he comes across, people have already made up their minds. There is a huge faction of women, primarily, who have decided that because Patrick Clancy got married too soon, because they didn’t think he was a good guy in the marriage, because they have preconceived notions, rightfully so, with regard to how other men have actually annihilated their families and then tried to blame their wives.

[00:05:20] Chalene Johnson : There is a huge group of women who believe that Patrick Clancy is the person responsible for the death of the children, is responsible for what his ex-wife Lindsay did to herself, and nothing Patrick Clancy says or does will change their minds. If anything, they’ll find something that he did, the way he looked, something about his body language to further substantiate their beliefs.

[00:05:48] Chalene Johnson : It’s called cognitive dissonance. I’m still gonna watch it. I’m still fascinated to see it. I’ve been fascinated to hear some of the jurors talking about what happened in the juror room. The justice system is definitely flawed. We’ve known that. Speaking of which, there’s a case I have been waiting and waiting and waiting, a criminal trial, to take place in the state of California involving a plastic surgeon.

[00:06:21] Chalene Johnson : And as closely as I watch this case It just blows my mind how the defendant in any criminal case really holds the cards. What I mean by that is they can delay a trial repeatedly by raising legal issues that a judge is obligated by law to address before the case can proceed. In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty, and what that means is, in my opinion, a lot of these criminals end up working the system if they’ve got financial backing because the courts can’t just ignore something that could potentially be a legitimate constitutional claim just because this defendant is presumed to be guilty, because they’re not.

[00:07:06] Chalene Johnson : They’re presumed to be innocent, so they will use delay tactics. They will challenge whether the evidence was obtained legally. They’ll try to suppress statements and searches and recordings, and they’ll claim that there was prosecutorial… Prosecutorial? Is that how you say it? Yeah, prosecutorial misconduct.

[00:07:25] Chalene Johnson : They’ll request a different attorney or discovery from the government or some other agency that’s involved, and they’ll request mental competency evaluations. They will try to separate trials from co-defendants. They’ll challenge the judge. They’ll challenge the venue. They’ll challenge the indictment.

[00:07:44] Chalene Johnson : They’ll challenge the witnesses. They’ll challenge expert testimony. They will file appeals over certain rulings. This is all before the trial even begins. How do I know? Because I’m following a criminal case in California very closely, and every single time I get a new notice, I just, I wanna rip my hair out.

[00:08:05] Chalene Johnson : I’m like, “This is crazy.” My brain has to wonder, what does this do to the credibility of any witness? I can’t remember what happened two weeks ago. How are witnesses supposed to remember something that happened five years ago, six years ago? And then is their memory questioned, and then is it much more likely that reasonable doubt is interjected, and it’s more likely that the defendant is gonna get off?

[00:08:29] Chalene Johnson : Yes. That is why they work the freaking system. And how did I get onto this topic? I don’t know, but isn’t it kind of confusing? ‘Cause all I know is if, I think, if I was up on criminal charges, I would want to take advantage of the part that says I’m entitled to a speedy trial. In federal court, the basic deadline is generally, I don’t know, I think it’s less than 90 days.

[00:08:55] Chalene Johnson : I don’t mean, like, consecutive calendar days, but business days. It’s just strange, and defendants who waive their right to a speedy trial are usually doing so because they want the witness’ memory to fade. They want the witness’ motivation to testify to diminish. They want the, the witnesses to disappear, to be unwilling to participate.

[00:09:17] Chalene Johnson : They want public attention to die down. They want anger to be tempered. They want victims to become exhausted. Y’all, how did I even get here? This was not part of the plan today. Okay, breathing. Deep breath in, deep breath out. So on Saturday, allegedly, I recorded the funniest, apparently, Between Friends Patreon episode I’ve ever published.

[00:09:48] Chalene Johnson : That’s the rumor anyways, and so thank you. Thank you for calling me funny or, or calling anything that I’ve created funny. Sometimes the episodes are intended to be funny. Sometimes they’re accidentally funny. The one I recorded on Saturday, it wasn’t intended to be funny. In fact, it was, for me, a very stressful story to retell.

[00:10:07] Chalene Johnson : But apparently, apparently, apparently y’all enjoyed it. I’m glad that I could keep you entertained on a weekend. If you wanna hear that story in full detail, of course it’s on Patreon. But I’m gonna share with you just the highlights. It revolved around a series of events that resulted in me missing my flight.

[00:10:31] Chalene Johnson : Yes. And I wanna talk about it. But before we go into this, I would first like to address those of you who are always on time. Okay? We know who you are. You arrive 12 minutes early. You find your parking spot. You’ve already used the bathroom. You’ve already f- filled your water bottle. You’ve already returned seven text messages.

[00:10:54] Chalene Johnson : You’ve thought about a backup route to get home just in case there’s traffic. When you say, “Yeah, I’m five minutes away,” you’ve actually already been there for, like, 10 minutes. You’re also the people who, those of us who like to do things right on time, you give us anxiety because we said the party starts at 7:00.

[00:11:16] Chalene Johnson : We can see your car outside at 6:45, okay? But we respect you. We also know that when you say, “We need to leave at 6:00,” we know that means you’ve been in the car for 10 minutes by 6:00 o’clock. Okay? You do not mean 6:00 when you say that. And we get it, and we respect you for it. We, when I say we, I mean those of us who show up exactly on time or perhaps a little late.

[00:11:45] Chalene Johnson : We’re fascinated by you. We also find you, frankly, very terrifying. We know that this is what your father taught you. We know you were probably raised in a military-like household. I don’t know. But you tend to have a lot of things in common. One being we can feel your anger, your anxiety, and your frustration long before we’re late.

[00:12:08] Chalene Johnson : And we just want you to understand something about those of us with a condition that researchers call temporal myopia. It’s an actual condition. It’s a condition that basically you can liken it to having nearsightedness about the future, okay? Listen, we’re not bad people. This little segment right here, this is for those of you who show up early.

[00:12:34] Chalene Johnson : It makes your blood boil when people don’t show up on time, and we know that you believe it is a fatal character flaw, that it makes us… People who show up late routinely are horrible humans who have… Like, they push down old ladies in the street, they kick kittens, and they show up late to your lunch. We get it.

[00:12:57] Chalene Johnson : We know that’s what you think of us. But this segment, this little segment, is designed for you, those of you who feel that way. It’s also intended to help those of us who struggle with this. And most importantly, it’s meant to bring us all together and to help us help each other. How about that? Because nobody is trying to hurt anyone.

[00:13:21] Chalene Johnson : No one is sitting at home and thinking, “Okay, I’m gonna wait before I leave because clearly I’m the most important person involved. I need to make sure that people understand that. And so in order to make people realize that I am the most important person, I’m gonna show up and have them all be mad at me.

[00:13:39] Chalene Johnson : I’m gonna show up late.” Most of the time, we are genuinely shocked when we are late. I know that’s hard to believe. I’m gonna explain this though, okay? You see, when 6:00 is approaching like a train coming down the tracks, those of us with this condition, which I’m now gonna refer to as time blindness, it is the inability to estimate time.

[00:14:05] Chalene Johnson : It is the inability not just to, to know what time it is, it’s the inability to know the difference between the passage of time, to estimate what is far away and what is close. It is not just about the clock. Those of us who have this struggle with this, and it’s a processing issue. This is a neurodivergent trait.

[00:14:30] Chalene Johnson : It is not a moral flaw, but we also know that society is not built around us. So before you guys get upset, those of you who are on time, I want everyone to know I’m gonna share with you tips that are gonna help those people who show up late, and it’s also gonna help those of you who are maybe married to or in a relationship or you’ve got a friend who does this, because this is a legitimate thing.

[00:14:57] Chalene Johnson : And it doesn’t mean you have to parent another adult, nor does it mean it’s your responsibility to fix someone who’s chronically late. And it also doesn’t mean that being late is harmless. It’s not. It doesn’t mean that people who struggle with this estimation of time get to inconvenience others, or that this is an excuse.

[00:15:16] Chalene Johnson : I wanna be super clear about that. I’m not making excuses at all, because everyone is responsible for their own behavior and also responsible for managing their behaviors. I’m not gonna walk in and say, “Hey, everybody. Sorry, I’ve got temporal myopia.” That definitely would not have worked in my mishap last week when I missed my flight to Dallas because It involved me sewing naked in my kitchen.

[00:15:47] Chalene Johnson : It involved hair extensions, and I wish I was exaggerating. If you listened to the full episode on Between Friends, the Patreon, you know what I’m talking about. Growing up, even as I started getting older, like in high school and even in college, I assumed that the reason why I was chronically late is because I grew up in a household where we were chronically late.

[00:16:12] Chalene Johnson : My dad had zero concept of time. My mom was very accepting of it. I wouldn’t say she loved it, but she also never made him feel bad. My dad would always put a positive spin on it. I’m not blaming you, Dad, if you’re listening. But I remember we would go to movies, and I’ve said this before, we would show up to movies and my- we’d show up, like, the last people to get seats, and my dad was always like, “See?

[00:16:37] Chalene Johnson : This is the strategy. If you show up late, you get to skip all the other movies, all the previews, and you get to walk in right when they start the movie.” And we would show up late to Thanksgiving dinner at my aunt’s house. He was like, “See? We don’t have to wait around for the food.” So in my mind, there was a positive association with it, but there were definitely negative associations.

[00:17:01] Chalene Johnson : I do remember playing on sports teams and my parents dropping me off for practice late and having to run laps or making my teammates, they would be punished because I showed up late. There were plenty of negative associations. I would get driven to school, but I was– my parents would drop me off late for school, and then I would have to do detention or I would have punishments for showing up late.

[00:17:25] Chalene Johnson : So there were lots and lots of negatives. I just assumed that the reason why my lateness extended into, again, college is because I picked up this habit from my family, mainly my dad. It wasn’t until I was then really dating my husband. He was raised in a family probably like yours, where if you’re not 15 minutes early, you are late.

[00:17:54] Chalene Johnson : I remember the first time going someplace with a specific time we were supposed to arrive with my husband. We were showing up maybe a couple of minutes early and noticing how panicked he was And realizing it’s because we were cutting it close. And cutting it close in his mind is if you were to show up on time, again, you’re late.

[00:18:14] Chalene Johnson : Cutting it close is showing up early, but not early enough. Whereas in my family, cutting it close is when you show up and the thing that you were supposed to be there, not only has it already started, it’s almost over. But if you show up and it’s still going on and it’s just about to end, that’s called cutting it close.

[00:18:34] Chalene Johnson : My parents walked in to my college graduation. I was the first person on either side of my family to go to college. It’s a big deal. I paid for it myself, and I’m about to receive my college diploma from Michigan State University, and my parents are not in the auditorium. I’m like… And as I’m literally walking across the stage, I see my parents running in, waving at me.

[00:19:04] Chalene Johnson : My maiden name is Melvin. It wasn’t like I was like the letter A in the alphabet for last names. That’s cutting it close. Anyways, that’s when I picked up from my husband, I’m like, “Oh, cutting it close is defined differently.” In that relationship, very early on, I picked up on how upsetting it was to my husband.

[00:19:25] Chalene Johnson : Like, it really made him upset. Not always upset with me, but I could sense that it, it made him very anxious. It made him nervous. It made him upset, and he would tell me, “We can’t be late for this thing.” Even if it was something in my mind, I was like, “Why do we have to show up at a specific time? We’re just…

[00:19:43] Chalene Johnson : We’re going on a date, and we don’t have reservations, and we said we would go at 7:00. What’s the big deal if we don’t leave until 7:30?” And we had this, like, difference of opinion, but we also openly talked about it, and I realized that this wasn’t just a habit thing because I wanted to show up early for him.

[00:20:03] Chalene Johnson : I knew how important it was to him I was motivated to show up early and to leave on time for things, but I could only do it about half of the time, and it made me feel like a horrible human. I would just be so angry with myself, and I would promise God, I would promise myself, “I will never do this to him again.

[00:20:25] Chalene Johnson : I’m going to be on time no matter what.” And then the very next opportunity, try as I might, I would be late again. So then you start looking at yourself and saying, “W- okay, what am I doing differently? Why is he on time? What is different about the two of us?” I’m organized. I’m very structured. I’m disciplined.

[00:20:48] Chalene Johnson : I’m incredibly disciplined. I can accomplish any goal. I can get myself organized. I can make things happen. Why is this a problem? Why is this so hard for me? Well, researchers have actually tested this. A meta-analysis of over 2,200 records, including 55 different studies, looking at how people with neurodivergence process time.

[00:21:14] Chalene Johnson : The studies tested time perceptions four different ways, okay? In the first test, they played a signal, and then they would play the signal twice, and they would ask participants to decide which one, which signal, which sound lasted longer. The next test, they were estimating how long a particular test took.

[00:21:35] Chalene Johnson : Like, they would, you know, give them an activity or whatever, and then they would ask them to estimate the passage of time. In another test, they had to produce something. They would say like, “Okay, you need to do XYZ activity for X amount of time,” on command. And then the last test was r- reproducing a length of time that they had just experienced, right?

[00:21:59] Chalene Johnson : So the researchers would have the participants do something, let’s say, for eight minutes, and then they would have the participants say, “Okay, go replicate that.” Well, across all four tests, those who struggled with the perception of time had ADHD. Now, that does not mean… This is very interesting. Not everyone with ADHD has this challenge when it comes to the perception of time.

[00:22:27] Chalene Johnson : It is certain forms of ADHD, certain forms of neurodivergence this is more common. And the differences weren’t isolated to a specific type of task or one quirky little lab measure. They appeared across every basic form of research that they did. If the individuals who struggled with the perception of time, it didn’t matter which test they were given, they could not accurately estimate time.

[00:22:57] Chalene Johnson : And that does not mean, like I said, that every person with ADHD experiences this. It doesn’t mean if you do experience this, you have ADHD, but there’s a very high likelihood that you do have ADHD or some form of neurodivergence. It’s also common with people who are experiencing depression, and that can be sometimes a short-term experience.

[00:23:19] Chalene Johnson : Like so You can be someone who’s really good with estimating time, and then you’re experiencing a bout of depression, and your ability to estimate time disappears. They know that this is an, an area of the brain that’s responsible for processing, and researchers really think that many people with ADHD, their brain’s internal timing system, it’s just, it’s unreliable.

[00:23:44] Chalene Johnson : It’s about perception. The same way that two people can ask, “Hey, how far away do you think that tree is?” And one person can be almost on the nose, like exactly 20 yards, and the other person looks, and they, they just can’t estimate how far away that tree is. Why? It doesn’t mean that they have a moral failing.

[00:24:06] Chalene Johnson : It doesn’t mean that they’re trying to upset someone. It doesn’t mean that they’re stupid. It means they were born that way. It means that’s the way that their brain works. I had the opportunity to sit down with probably one of the most well-known over-45 beauty influencers, and I said, “Girl, don’t try to sell me anything.

[00:24:25] Chalene Johnson : Just tell me, like, what’s the one thing that makes the biggest difference in women’s skin?” And she’s like, “An SPF.” And I, I know there’s, like, lots of controversy, and some people are like, “Oh, don’t wear an SPF.” She’s like, “Yeah, don’t wear an SPF if you want to look older.” She’s like, “It’s just a game changer, and you can tell the difference.”

[00:24:43] Chalene Johnson : So I started wearing a full-body SPF, even on the days when it’s kind of cloudy, and I’m here in Miami, so there’s a lot of sun. I need to find an SPF that felt good on my skin, that wasn’t sticky, that didn’t have all the, you know, nasty ingredients. It wasn’t tested on animals. So I went with OneSkin.

[00:25:01] Chalene Johnson : OneSkin’s full body, their full-body SPF is amazing, but you really get the one-two combo when you combine it with the OneSkin body lotion. Their body lotion has peptides in it. It’s literally like putting vitamins topically on your skin. It helps with collagen production. It locks in the moisture. Then you put the SPF on top of it, and it doesn’t feel like your typical SPF.

[00:25:27] Chalene Johnson : Like, my skin looks so much better, so much more hydrated, and I know I’m protecting it. So I’m happy to tell you that OneSkin is now a sponsor of the show. Why? Because I’m like, “Girl, you need a discount on this stuff, too.” So all you do is go to chalene.com/lotion. They’ve got great skincare. Like, I love their eye care.

[00:25:48] Chalene Johnson : I love their SPF for your face as well if you didn’t wanna use the full body ’cause they have a face SPF that’s tinted that’s… It’s delicious. Check ’em out. Go to chalene.com/lotion because we cannot have you getting additional steps in and risking damaging your skin. We can’t have you looking like a piece of beef jerky.

[00:26:08] Chalene Johnson : No, I need your skin young and supple and well-hydrated. Go to chalene.com/lotion. All right, back to the show. I missed my flight to Dallas last weekend. I missed the first flight. I got on a second flight, and I eventually ended up there. And I know what you’re thinking. If you are someone who doesn’t struggle with the perception of time, it’s just such a simple solution.

[00:26:32] Chalene Johnson : Like, you are banging your head against the wall for me saying, like, “Just leave earlier.” Okay, thank you. Wow, groundbreaking advice. Oh, that’s it? Oh, I just need to leave earlier. Okay, that should be so easy. But that’s not the problem. It’s not simply refusing to make a schedule. It’s that for many of us, our brains have very unreliable internal clocks This is something Dr.

[00:26:58] Chalene Johnson : Russell Barkley has spent decades studying. He studies executive functioning, and his work describes ADHD as more than a problem of just, like, paying attention. In fact, he says one of the biggest challenges for those with ADHD is the organization of time. It’s the processing of time. He is the researcher who coined the term temporal myopia, which basically means nearsightedness about the future, not just time as in the next hour, but as in the passage of months or years.

[00:27:33] Chalene Johnson : This is how he explains it. He says that time falls into two categories for people with ADHD, and this is the best way I’ve ever heard it described. If you have someone you love who is this person, ask them if it’s true for them, because it’s true for me. There are two categories of time. For me, it is now and not now.

[00:27:56] Chalene Johnson : I know that doesn’t make sense to some of you, but that is… Like, if I have a very, very life-changing event two days from now, I’m not even thinking about it. I’m not even thinking about it the day before. My brain just doesn’t. I don’t know what it is. It just won’t think about things until it’s now. I’ve set up lots of systems.

[00:28:19] Chalene Johnson : I’m gonna share some of those in this episode. So I know you’re frustrated, but we’re gonna get to some of the solutions. But something scheduled for later can be on my calendar, and I can know exactly when it starts. I can even know that I should be feeling anxious about it, but I don’t. It still doesn’t feel real or like it’s something I need to think about until I feel, like, a little bit of an adrenaline rush that like, okay, now it’s here.

[00:28:42] Chalene Johnson : Okay, now my flight is leaving. Now I’m starting to get the adrenaline rush. I wanna play you this little clip. What is the purpose of the frontal lobe to humans? It is to organize your behavior across time in anticipation of what is coming at you, the future. So ADHD creates a blindness to time, or technically, to be more accurate, a nearsightedness to the future.

[00:29:08] Chalene Johnson : ADHD is at its heart a blindness to time, or technically, to be exact, it is a nearsightedness to the future. Just as people who are nearsighted can only read things close at hand, people with ADHD can only deal with things near in time. The further out the event lies, the less they are capable of dealing with it, and this is why everything is left to the last minute, because they only deal with last minutes.

[00:29:35] Chalene Johnson : That’s all they perceive. That’s all they deal with. That’s all they organize to. And so their life is a series of one crisis after another, all of which were avoidable because people prepared, and they didn’t. They weren’t ready on time, in time, over time, with what they needed at that time. Note the word time, right So ADHD is destroying the timing and timeliness of human behavior.

[00:29:57] Chalene Johnson : That is a very important thing for parents to understand because while a three-year-old does not have to have a sense of time, a 30-year-old does And one of the most devastating deficits in adult life that ADHD produces is a disruption in the fabric of time. Now, there’s another area of ADHD where this time blindness can be explained, or at least it’s gonna give you a little bit more nuance.

[00:30:20] Chalene Johnson : It’s an area called delay aversion, and a researcher, Edmund Sonuga-Barke, began studying it in the early 1990s, and the basic idea around this is that some people with ADHD, they do not experience waiting as merely being disciplined and something that’s kind of boring, but you’re, like, waiting. People with ADHD experience waiting as an intense discomfort, something that the brain looks for ways to escape it.

[00:30:52] Chalene Johnson : Never, ever have I heard something that is more accurate in my entire life. The other day, I caught a social media video. This woman was standing in her kitchen, and her husband was like, “What are you doing?” He walks in, and she has tied a dish rag around one wrist, and the other end of the dish rag was tied to the handle of the oven, and the oven was slightly propped open.

[00:31:17] Chalene Johnson : She was broiling nachos, basically melting cheese on top of the chips, which is… How long do you do that for? Like, three or four minutes? I don’t know. A minute? I don’t know, but whatever it was, I completely understood why she had to do that because standing there doing nothing for two minutes feels painful.

[00:31:37] Chalene Johnson : And then he said, “Why can’t you just stand here?” And she said, “As a matter of fact, I’m standing here with my arm tied to the oven, and I’m trying to, with my foot, reach over to the countertop to grab this rag to see if I can’t…” Like, she was trying to do something. Like, just waiting and doing nothing is the most excruciating thing I can think of.

[00:32:01] Chalene Johnson : You literally want to escape it. When I had my brain scan done at the Amen Clinic, my husband also had his done, and so did my father, and so did Brett’s father. Not surprisingly, my father and I had very nearly identical brains, and there’s a big percentage of your brain that is, in fact, inherited. But it was so fascinating to look side by side at the results of Brett’s brain scan and my brain scan and to see blood flow during different portions of the test and different activities.

[00:32:30] Chalene Johnson : In a 2018 brain imaging study, this is a study led by… Do you guys even care? Joen Van Dessel. This- in this research, they looked at the activities of the brain activity of those with ADHD, and then they would subject them to things where they had to wait. They had to just patiently sit and wait, and what they found is that their brains, their prefrontal cortex, while they were in this delay, created this activity where it was almost like a fight or flight Waiting in the brain of someone who has ADHD shows up in the brain like they’re being exposed to something dangerous.

[00:33:11] Chalene Johnson : So when Brett and I both did our brain scans, there was one portion where we were just supposed to sit… Well, we… Not supposed to, we were. We were hooked up to these electrodes, and you’re just sitting in a room for, like, 20 minutes, and you have no phone. You have nothing to do. You just sit there. And Brett’s brain is, like, nice and calm and quiet, peaceful, just waiting.

[00:33:34] Chalene Johnson : My brain looks like I’m fighting for my life. It looks like I’m trying to outrun a tiger that’s gonna eat me, like total fear. I think you can probably… Some of you are really gonna be able to relate to that. Waiting, doing nothing, is hard for some people, and it explains a lot about why it is when we, those of us who have this aversion, the thought of getting someplace early and waiting around sounds dangerous.

[00:34:05] Chalene Johnson : You can’t understand unless you have this brain, but it really does. It sounds dangerous. It sounds scary. And so what we’ll try to do, as best as we can, is be exactly on time, which never happens because the brain latches on to one specific time, and then the next thing you know, you have hyper-focused on something.

[00:34:26] Chalene Johnson : Add to it the fact that you have an inability to estimate that- It’s not 10 minutes that’s passed, it’s actually 30 minutes that have passed. I can’t even tell you how many times Brett has walked into a room and he’s like, “You’re still doing blah, blah, blah?” And I’m like, “What? Yeah, I just started.” He’s like, “Shelene, it’s been an hour.”

[00:34:47] Chalene Johnson : And I swear, in my brain it’s been maybe five minutes. My brain, our brains often will latch onto one specific time. Because if you are someone who struggles with time, your brain knows that it’s a negative. It knows that this is a bad thing. It knows that society hates this. It associates it with all the terrible things that have happened to you when you’re late.

[00:35:13] Chalene Johnson : It knows that. And so our brains are like, “Okay, let’s not be late. Let’s remember this specific time.” We don’t realize it’s not about the remembering of the time, it’s about the estimating of the time, but we’re not good at that. So instead, our brains default to holding onto a number. So if you have to drive to work each day, and it takes you on average between 34 and let’s say 41 minutes, okay?

[00:35:42] Chalene Johnson : But one time, one time in your entire life you made that drive at 5:00 AM and there was no traffic, there were no lights, and you got there in 28 minutes. And your brain holds onto the 28 from now until forever. And so every time when you’re like, “Okay, I need to be on time for work,” your brain says, “And I only need 28 minutes.”

[00:36:05] Chalene Johnson : My brain, our brains, when we hear a number… Let’s just say, for example, you’re married to someone, or you have a partner or a child who struggles with this, and you tell that child, “Listen, the dinner starts, we need to be at the restaurant at 8:00. We also need to leave here by 7:30, which means you need to be out of the shower by 7:00.”

[00:36:29] Chalene Johnson : Your child only heard 8:00. And so in their mind, that means get in the shower. Like, all things happen at 8:00. So get in the shower, 8:00. Be ready to leave, 8:00. Dinner, 8:00. We just hold onto one number. My first tip I have for any of you is to never mention The latest time. Never mention the start time. Never mention the departure time.

[00:36:56] Chalene Johnson : Never mention the drop dead time. Always mention the earliest time you can possibly think of, because worst case scenario, they’re early, they’re on time, and that’s a beautiful thing. We have phones. We will figure out… Like, waiting is not dangerous. I know that. I know it’s irrational, but that’s not how mental health works.

[00:37:20] Chalene Johnson : Mental health is not always rational. Okay? So our brains stop calculating when we need to finish doing something, and our brains aren’t able to estimate how long we’ve been doing something. Our brains are not able to notice that time has been passing. This is so much more complicated than just look at your phone and see what time it is.

[00:37:42] Chalene Johnson : This is the equivalent of telling someone who has anorexia, “You should just eat.” It’s not about the food It’s not about being thin. It’s the way their brain is wired. It’s about control. And for those of us who struggle with this time perception, it’s not about looking at a clock. It is about learning how to manage ourselves.

[00:38:10] Chalene Johnson : And I’m telling you that so that you can start to make these changes yourself. But also, I’m telling those of you who support us and have to deal with us what things not to say. Look, I know this is not your responsibility, but there are things you can do that can make it worse. The same way that it’s not your responsibility to help someone who has an eating disorder, it’s not your responsibility, it’s theirs.

[00:38:32] Chalene Johnson : But it, I think it’s helpful to know that you saying, “Hey, you should probably just eat a burger,” or, “You should put on some weight,” that’s just not helpful. Ultimately, don’t we all want the same thing? The other thing I think we need to talk about is ADHD, which is oftentimes people assume that’s having a hyperfocus, or the inability to focus.

[00:38:56] Chalene Johnson : But the truth is, having hyperfocus is something anyone has the ability. It’s not just people with ADHD. They’ve done lots of studies looking at people with ADHD. In fact, one study in 2020 compared adults who had diagnosed, formally, ADHD, to a larger group of adults who did not have the diagnosis, and researchers asked about their frequency and duration, meaning people with and without, and how often they had hyperfocus experiences.

[00:39:27] Chalene Johnson : Get this, those groups had pretty equal degrees, or frequencies I should say, of hyperfocus. Where things differed, however, was that people who have ADHD have almost an inability to pull themselves out of it, especially when there’s something more important. That’s exactly… Dude, that is so what happened to me on Saturday, and my husband wasn’t here.

[00:39:55] Chalene Johnson : I’m not blaming him, I’m just saying that he is, for me, a trigger. So like, whenever I look at my husband , if he just, like, walks past me in the house, I think to myself, “Okay, where, where are we supposed to be next?” And it almost like breaks my focus, and I then remind myself, “Oh, am I supposed to be doing this thing that I’ve accidentally started doing?”

[00:40:16] Chalene Johnson : That I sat down at the table and started hemming every pair of pants- Hemming every dress, blouse, shirt, leggings, jumper that I owned because I had figured out how to thread the bobbin on my sewing machine. And Brett wasn’t here, and I’m not saying it’s his responsibility to say anything, but I didn’t have that pattern interrupt.

[00:40:37] Chalene Johnson : It’s literally like getting in a trance, and that’s the difference between you, who doesn’t have ADHD, and you can get hyper-focused on something and get something done. But also, somebody who doesn’t have ADHD, you can get in hyper-focus mode, and you can pull yourself out of it. For those of us who have this, you combine that with time blindness and how the brain of someone with ADHD feels when we’re hyper-focused on something that gives us dopamine, it is like…

[00:41:09] Chalene Johnson : Have you ever seen one of those episodes of Intervention where they have the camera on the person shooting up heroin, and they suddenly look, like, so relaxed, and their eyes kinda, like, roll back in their head, and they just kinda, like, slip away? That’s kinda what it feels like. I gotta tell you, when I slip into hyper-focus mode and it’s something that I’m just like, I’m so into it- I feel like I, I feel like I’m in a trance.

[00:41:38] Chalene Johnson : I feel like I’m on another planet. I feel like I’m in another world, and it takes a lot to pull me out of it. And it’s also why, if you have this type of hyperfocus, when someone accidentally interrupts you, you feel violent because you were just in the deepest, most delicious high, but that high is really just, like, you focusing on, I don’t know, some weird obscure research that you’re doing.

[00:42:09] Chalene Johnson : Oh, it’s so hard to under- I know we’re a nightmare to live with. I know this is hard to understand if you don’t have this brain, and I also know some of you right now are listening to me talk about this, and you’re like, “Oh my God, this is exactly what I feel.” And that’s why I tell you, it is good to get a diagnosis and not guess at this stuff.

[00:42:31] Chalene Johnson : I went to the Amen Clinic. I do recommend that you not try to diagnose yourself online. But also, people are like, “You know, if I’ve gotten this far, do I really need a diagnosis?” I don’t know. I felt it made a big difference for me. It’s like I stopped feeling so bad about myself. And by the way, there is a difference between someone who’s late because they don’t care and someone who’s late because their brain fails to send the stop signal.

[00:42:57] Chalene Johnson : There is a difference. One is a character problem. We know this from doing studies, from asking people and figuring out what is going on when someone shows up chronically late or when someone is struggling to be on time. Maybe they’re on time sometimes, but it is a challenge. And from the outside, they can look like the same person.

[00:43:18] Chalene Johnson : It can look like someone who just doesn’t care But when you struggle with this delay response, when you struggle with time blindness and hyperfocus, I promise you it is not intentional, and we feel bad about ourselves. It’s hard to change. It’s hard to help someone to build confidence if they already feel like they’re letting everybody down.

[00:43:42] Chalene Johnson : But there are things you can do that make a big difference. Calling yourself lazy, thinking of yourself as a bad friend or an idiot or stupid isn’t gonna help. Building systems around it, that will help. It does help immensely. I know because I’ve had to. But I’m not perfect because when I don’t have a system in place, I’m gonna fail.

[00:44:09] Chalene Johnson : The same way someone who doesn’t have their ability to see far away if they’re not wearing their glasses, then they’re not gonna be able to see far away. If they’re wearing their glasses, they’ve got the right support, they’re gonna make it happen. And that’s how you have to think about these things, okay?

[00:44:24] Chalene Johnson : So remember that those of you who are on time, when your partner who’s trying really hard and has these challenges, when it doesn’t go well, it has nothing to do with their discipline. There was a breakdown in the system, so we ne- we need to attack the system instead of attacking the person. Okay, so let’s talk about some things you can do to improve this.

[00:44:46] Chalene Johnson : Number one, when you’re talking to someone who has time blindness, never give them the time the thing starts or the time the thing you’ve gotta leave. Give them the earliest possible time. Lie about the time. If they’re generally 30 minutes late, well then tell them a time that’s 45 minutes off And the same is true for those of you who you have time blindness.
[00:45:10] Chalene Johnson : Don’t ask what time the thing starts, ask, “What time do I have to leave by?” Or ask, “What time do I need to be in the shower by?” Drop dead. And encourage people to… It’s, again, it’s not their responsibility, but if you have people who w- who really desperately wanna be on time, if it’s important to them, then they can help you with the system.
[00:45:31] Chalene Johnson : Let’s not fight each other. Use specific countdowns, okay? When you’re talking to somebody who has time blindness and you say, “Soon,” that means absolutely nothing. When you say, “You have 30 minutes,” that means absolutely nothing if they can’t estimate time. So instead, it’s helpful to use different language, okay?
[00:45:54] Chalene Johnson : Instead of saying, “Soon,” say, “You need to be,” fill in the blank, “in the next couple of minutes.” Try not to give them big blocks of time. The longer the block is for them to estimate, the more likely they’re gonna be off. Next, if you’re dealing with somebody who has hyperfocus, yelling from another room, “Hey, we need to leave soon,” or, “Are you getting ready?”
[00:46:18] Chalene Johnson : Even if they respond to you, the person who is in their garage working on their motorcycle and you just yelled at them, “Hey, we’re gonna be leaving soon,” and they’re like, “Yeah, no problem,” they’re in a trance. What they just yelled back to you, they don’t r- even recall it. They were in a dream-like state.
[00:46:34] Chalene Johnson : Think about the heroin addict. From now on, remember that your hyperfocused partner, it’s like they’re on heroin with their eyes rolling back in their head when they are in hyperfocus mode. You need to physically go to them and physically tell them. You have to, like, interrupt their hyperfocus. You have to say, “Put the scissors down and put your shoes on.”
[00:46:57] Chalene Johnson : And I know what you’re thinking. “I’m not that person’s parent.” Okay, fine. I guess you’re g- guys are both gonna be late. Being frustrated and upset with your partner and feeling like this isn’t fair to you that you have to participate, I’m sure at times it can feel like, “Why do I have to? This person’s an adult.
[00:47:14] Chalene Johnson : Why do I have to do these things?” I don’t know if this is the exact analogy, so don’t cancel me, but, like, if your partner was hearing impaired, you probably would not say, “It’s not fair that I have to turn on closed captions on the TV for an- another adult. They should be able to hear. They should be able to turn those on themselves.”
[00:47:34] Chalene Johnson : Well, yeah, they can turn them on themselves, but they can’t help the fact that they can’t hear. They can’t help that So being upset with them is not very empathetic, it’s not very loving, it’s not gonna get you anywhere. The same, if your partner was nearsighted, you would not be offended if they said, “Hey, can you hand me my glasses?
[00:47:53] Chalene Johnson : I need those to read the sign.” You would understand that their eyes do not bring that distant object into focus without help. They need some help. I think that’s a useful way to think about temporal myopia. It’s the brain has trouble bringing the future into focus. It’s the way the brain works. It really makes us feel like when you make us feel like there’s something wrong with us, when people make us feel like there’s something wrong with us.
[00:48:25] Chalene Johnson : You’ve gotta be patient. If you love this person, you just, you find ways to help them with their systems. A person can see what is directly in front of them, but a flight tomorrow, a birthday next month, a project that your son has due in six weeks, that is blurry until the night before, maybe the day of.
[00:48:48] Chalene Johnson : The calendar, countdowns, reminders, smaller deadlines, that’s the support we need, someone literally being a pattern interrupt. When things become routine, so for example, if I’m setting too many alarms on my phone, th- those alarms on my phone, it works like a charm for, I don’t know, a couple of months, and then I ignore the first alarm And then the next day I’m ignoring a few alarms, and then the alarms are just white noise and th- they’re no longer a pattern interrupt.
[00:49:23] Chalene Johnson : We really do become hypnotized. We become hypnotized by whatever it is that gives us dopamine, and the more you can create, like, variety in the way you interrupt and create patterns… If you’re loving, we really do appreciate if you just ask your partner who has ADHD, “What would help you to be on time?
[00:49:43] Chalene Johnson : What would help you to get this thing done? What would help you to begin this project?” Just ask them what would help them, ’cause a lot of times we know, but we’re so embarrassed and annoyed with ourselves, that we’re just trying to figure it out, and it doesn’t come easy for us. It comes so easy for some of you, and it just doesn’t for us.
[00:50:04] Chalene Johnson : I mean, even for me to take my medications, that’s important for me to do that. I have to set up so many unique triggers and ways to remember to do that, or I won’t. And I know it’s my responsibility, but some of those triggers then become white noise and I have to find new triggers. So for those of you who do have ADHD, just a reminder that you’ve gotta keep trying and being resourceful and playing around with different systems.
[00:50:33] Chalene Johnson : For me, it’s… I’ve got people on my team who that’s their responsibility, is becoming the pattern interrupt for me, like holding me accountable, and I’m the boss. But this boss needs the support of people who have a neurotypical brain, people who see approaching deadlines two weeks before the deadline, whereas I see it the day it’s due.
[00:50:55] Chalene Johnson : It really means a lot, I’m gonna say this on behalf of those of us who have these struggles, it means a lot when people are patient and they don’t judge us. We are hard enough on ourselves. The world is not built for this. None of what I’ve shared with you is meant to be an excuse by any stretch. I know some of you are gonna listen and you’re just totally not gonna get it.
[00:51:18] Chalene Johnson : Oh, that’s… Oh, well. Nothing I can do about that except try to explain it to those of you who have an open mind and an open heart, and a willingness to be supportive. And last I have to say, if you are a parent, by all means please t- take these messages to heart, ’cause it is so hard to be a kid with ADHD, especially if you have parents who don’t have that kind of a brain.
[00:51:42] Chalene Johnson : Ugh. I know how it feels because I’ve had teachers who didn’t get it, and you, you just feel like such a complete disappointment. You can change the trajectory of your child’s life by understanding this disorder. You can change the confidence in what your child is, and even your partner, even what an adult is able to accomplish if they just have a little bit of help in creating those support systems.

[00:52:08] Chalene Johnson : But we know it’s our responsibility. Okay, I know, I’m repeating myself now. This AI thing, isn’t it crazy since the episode I did on Wednesday? Is it all that you’re seeing now? Like, what is happening? The news cycle has gone straight up all AI. There’s a new documentary on Netflix. I highly recommend it. It came out this week.

[00:52:29] Chalene Johnson : I think it’s called The AI Apocalypse. I’ll put it in Snapshot this weekend, along with a bunch of other great reality TV shows and a bunch of other documentaries. Lots of good stuff that are gonna… It’s gonna be in Snapshot this week. Of course, sign up for the newsletter. It’s down in the show description.

[00:52:46] Chalene Johnson : But the story with AI, like, dude, I need to do a follow-up on this on Wednesday. We’re almost at the end of the show. But I have, especially from so many of you sharing your thoughts about what’s going on, and me looking into this further, I feel like I have some more intel. And more importantly, what I think we…

[00:53:07] Chalene Johnson : ‘Cause, like, what can you do about it? Right? Like what exactly can we do about it? I’m gonna talk about that on Wednesday, ’cause I do think there is a lot that we can do, and the worst thing that we can do is politicize this and pick sides. That’s how we’re all gonna end up with the robots killing us. And I’m gonna talk a little bit more in detail about the bots and how that’s controlling narratives and online attacks, because apparently that was news to many of you.

[00:53:37] Chalene Johnson : So I’m gonna share with you some real-life examples that are gonna blow your mind, and I think you’re gonna feel a little bit better the next time you get, like, a weird comment on one of your social media posts, or you start fighting with somebody in the comments or in your DMs. This is gonna make a lot more sense.

[00:53:55] Chalene Johnson : But I think we’ve just scratched the surface with something far more nefarious when it comes to AI and all these tech companies. I’ll share more with you on that on Wednesday. I have an update regarding the penthouse. Today, as you’re listening to this on Friday, we will be meeting with Penelope’s oncologist to learn more about her diagnosis and what we’re going to do, and her prognosis.

[00:54:28] Chalene Johnson : Thank you for all the suggestions and feedback and tips. I’ve got like a whole folder on my desktop and on my AI, my AI projects. Oh my God, you guys, I’ve got some crazy stories I’m gonna share with you on Saturday, so if you haven’t yet, I would love to invite you to join us on Patreon so we can keep this party going.

[00:54:50] Chalene Johnson : I can keep you company a few more days per week and get into a little bit more personal stuff. That’s where you’ll find that. It’s at chalene.com/more. I love you, I mean it, and I’ll talk to you soon.