My Own Hypocrisy | The Body Shaming Double Standard

[00:00:00] Chalene Johnson : Hey, before we get too far, I know I’ve talked a lot about the supplements that I take in powder form. There’s a lot of them, and there’s, of course, the things I take in capsule form, but I also take a few things in gummy form. And one of the things that I started taking about a year ago, actually when we were in Europe last year, is saffron.

[00:00:21] Chalene Johnson : And I started taking it because I heard about quite a few studies that demonstrated that saffron made significant improvements in people’s– their ability to reduce their anxiety, to feel more relaxed, to have mental clarity, and of course, that’s gonna improve your sleep, right? Because that’s one of the main reasons why so many of us struggle to sleep at night.

[00:00:47] Chalene Johnson : You lay down, and your brain just doesn’t stop spinning. So anyways, I looked into it. You know me, I love to see a good study, and there’s been a ton of them. In fact, April through July twenty twenty-five, this is brand new, a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled study looking at the impact of taking saffron daily for just three months, and the results, I can tell you, were pretty astonishing.

[00:01:16] Chalene Johnson : A marked decrease in depression, anxiety, and stress. Seventy-two point three percent of the participants in the saffron group achieved significant improvements on their mental state, so talking about having less anxiety. And of course, that I think is one of the reasons why it contributes to fewer sleep disturbances for those especially who are taking the saffron.

[00:01:39] Chalene Johnson : So listen, I’m definitely not telling you to go off your SSRIs, and if you’re on an antidepressant, that’s awesome. But if you’re one of those people who you’ve been thinking like, “I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, I just… I don’t feel as happy as I usually am,” or, “I just feel kinda meh,” you know what I’m talking about.

[00:01:56] Chalene Johnson : You can’t put your finger on it, but you’re like, “I’m just not as happy,” or, “Maybe I’m dealing with more anxiety,” or, “Things are bugging me more than they usually do.” You’ve heard me talk about Organifi for years, and Organifi came out with a saffron gummy that’s actually very, very tasty. So I am going to encourage you, if, if you’re already a customer of Organifi, next time you go to place an order, go to organifi.com/chalene.

[00:02:24] Chalene Johnson : Use code Chalene. That always gets you twenty percent off. I take their Immunity daily. I take Pure daily. I take their collagen daily. All of these things are on the regular, and again, I started taking the Happy Drops. I don’t take those daily, but I’d say I take them, like, three, four times a week And I’ve noticed a difference.

[00:02:48] Chalene Johnson : So I want you to check them out. Try them the next time you’re over at Organifi, or, or just go there right now. Go to organifi.com/chalene. You get 20% off when you use code Chalene, and we love Organifi. So it’s O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/chalene for 20% off. Buckle up, buttercup. This is quite the episode if I do say so myself.

[00:03:12] Chalene Johnson : We’re gonna kick this off talking about the statement from Dr. Rhonda Patrick, one of my favorites, that the statement that she made on the Mel Robbins podcast that we should not be putting bananas in our smoothies. And if you’re freaking out right now, don’t worry. We’re gonna go into great detail, and I’m also gonna share with you how and why it is we have, rightfully so, it makes sense to me why we listen to certain doctors because they have huge platforms.

[00:03:42] Chalene Johnson : We understand their credentials. We feel like they save us so much time because they’re trusted. They’re trusted experts. We don’t have the time or the expertise or the education to be able to evaluate all of these studies and how they impact us, so we look to them to save us time and to guide us and to tell us the right things to do.

[00:04:02] Chalene Johnson : But how is it we’re able to recognize when claims are being overstated or taken out of context? How do we learn to still think for ourselves? H- how do we sort through these things, and how do we know which doctors we can trust? How do we know which doctors are actually real and which ones are AI-generated?

[00:04:23] Chalene Johnson : How do we know that our favorite doctor who we’ve been following and we trust for years, and now we’re seeing an ad for them promoting a supplement, how do we know if it’s actually them or if it’s AI-generated? We’re gonna break all of that down. The New York Times recently did an investigation into some of these claims that are being made online, and then the supplements that are being sold to you which do not have FDA regulations around them.

[00:04:50] Chalene Johnson : And I know some of you don’t trust the FDA as it is anyways, but unfortunately, we have to be way more prudent about what supplements we’re taking and the regulations regarding them because… Well, I’m gonna share with you some stories that are gonna blow your mind. And then ultimately, I wanna talk about this trend that’s happening online where young women who are, maybe they’re well-known in social media, maybe they’ve got a ton of followers, maybe they’re just famous for being famous, but the women who have decided not to jump on the ultra-thin trend and just maintain a healthy weight and how they’re experiencing extreme criticism and body shaming, not from people making videos with their own faces criticizing these women, but just the body shaming that’s happening in their comments and how so many women who j- are just trying to be healthy feel like by doing so, they’re making themselves a target, and that the only way they’re gonna end that criticism is by giving in and getting on the Ozempic and the GLP-1 drugs and getting extremely thin and losing their muscle.

[00:06:02] Chalene Johnson : And like, look at– They’re literally making videos saying, “Okay, fine, have it your way, then I’m gonna get on a GLP-1.” But today we’re gonna talk about the irony that when a woman is of healthy weight, she’s criticized and told that she’s too big. When a woman gains a lot of extra weight, people don’t criticize her per se and comment on the fact that she’s unhealthy or that she’s setting a poor example for other people.

[00:06:28] Chalene Johnson : They just say she’s unattractive. Yet when a woman gets what we consider too thin, then we feel like publicly That person is fair game. That other women criticize women who get too thin, and we do so in the name of, like, “Well, this is unhealthy. We’re worried about her mental health. We’re worried about her physical health.”

[00:06:51] Chalene Johnson : Yet we have to address the hypocrisy, and in doing so, today I am gonna start with me. I’m gonna put my feet in the grass, look up to the skies, and say, “All right. Judge me first,” because yeah, today I’m gonna admit the way ultra-thin women can make me feel triggered and some things that I recognize I have done and said that, well, I mean, I feel like a hypocrite.

[00:07:27] Chalene Johnson : And I’ve got a little bit of self-awareness that I wanna share with you and talk through with you today. And I need to start recording ASAP, because in our condo, we just got back from Europe. You can hear all the behind-the-scenes on Patreon, and we returned to our condo building, and they’re doing construction on the pool directly above our unit, and they’re drilling.

[00:07:52] Chalene Johnson : And dude, I’m telling you, it sounds like they’re drilling in the same room. I don’t know what we’re gonna do, because I mean, I’m not gonna be able to continue with my job. I work from home. I don’t know how I’m gonna be able to do this. I’m gonna start recording right now, because they haven’t started drilling yet, so I’m hoping that maybe because there’s a threat of rain they’re not gonna drill today.

[00:08:15] Chalene Johnson : I better get started. All right. Here we go. Okay, so our girl, Rhonda Patrick… I say our girl because she’s one of the female doctors that I’m really proud of the fact that she’s made a name for herself in the biohacking boys club. And when that happens, you become a target. People are actively looking for things that you’re gonna get wrong, the ways that you’re gonna misspeak, and there are all these accounts that basically blow up, and their whole niche is tearing down other creators.

[00:08:49] Chalene Johnson : It’s a weird thing. Whatever. Your head is on the chopping block the moment you have any amount of notoriety. No wonder so many women are like, “Yeah, I don’t really wanna put myself out there.” Okay, anyways, back to Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Okay, let me just play the clip for you. Here you go. One thing I do not add to my smoothie is a banana.

[00:09:09] Chalene Johnson : Uh-oh. I used to put them in my smoothies. Dr. Patrick, what happens when you put a banana in a smoothie? What happens is there’s a, there’s something in the banana- Uh-huh … called polyphenol oxidase. That doesn’t sound good. Doesn’t sound good. Polyphenols are what I just said are beneficial. Yes. Oxidase, polyphenol oxidase, it’s essentially an enzyme that’s breaking down the polyphenols And there have now been studies that have come out showing if you add bananas to blueberries, you’re not getting as many polyphenols.

[00:09:38] Chalene Johnson : In fact, it’s quite a bit lower. So the banana is killing the benefit of the blue… See, this is why I need you because I am sitting here making smoothies thinking I like the texture of the banana in it. It gives a little heft, creams it out a little bit. But then I’m putting in my blueberries, and I just blew it because the banana canceled the blueberries.

[00:09:55] Chalene Johnson : It’s true. I also used to add it to my blueberries for that exact reason, plus the taste. If you go to any smoothie place, you’ll see they always add bananas to any blueberry smoothie. Yes, of course. Even when I saw that clip, I thought to myself, “Oh, come on. Are we really gonna have a problem with bananas now?

[00:10:11] Chalene Johnson : Are we gonna make people fear bananas?” It felt like fear-mongering to me. This is the kind of biohacking stuff that I just don’t pay attention to. As much as I love Rhonda, as much as I love Dr. Huberman, all of the other biohackers who, like, do this crazy research, you can also make yourself crazy worrying about all these things.

[00:10:29] Chalene Johnson : You’re like, “Oh, wait, so this week it’s bad. This week it’s good. Wait, I can combine bananas with avocados, but I can’t have bananas with blueberries? And I can have blueberries, but not blueberries with…” Like, you can drive yourself crazy. So anyways, the first thing I wanted to do is, because everybody was freaking out over this and saying, “She’s wrong and she’s fear-mongering,” I was like, “I should probably look at the study myself.”

[00:10:51] Chalene Johnson : So I did. I pulled the study. Unless I’m looking at a different study, the study that she was referring to was a study that looked at eight men. Eight healthy men, no women anywhere in it. And this is a study that was out of Davis, California. And out of those eight men, only six of them actually finished the smoothie experiment, I guess you could say.

[00:11:17] Chalene Johnson : Two of them didn’t even make it through. It’s like, how are we calling this a study? Okay, so here’s the other part that really changes the whole story, and I’m kind of surprised. Well, actually, when I read this, I’m like, oh, what’s gonna happen is Dr. Patrick is gonna come out and clarify. The part that I think is so surprising, at least thus far…

[00:11:39] Chalene Johnson : At the time that I’m recording this, I don’t think she’s responded to this part of it. The number 84, 84% that everyone keeps quoting, that’s not about banana smoothies versus blueberries. That’s about banana smoothies versus a flavanol capsule, a pill. And the blueberry smoothie by itself performed basically the same as the pill.

[00:12:03] Chalene Johnson : So statistically, there was really no real difference. So the actual finding isn’t that bananas completely cancel out the flavanols in blueberries. Oh my God, I have to stop recording. Can you hear the drilling overhead? Standby, please. How crazy. How crazy loud is that, you guys? And now I have to move. This drilling is…

[00:12:23] Chalene Johnson : They said, “Just don’t worry, it’s only gonna continue for n- the next nine months.” What? What are you even talking about? Anyways, back to this study. This is also crazy. The study was funded by Mars. Yeah, the candy company And three of the seven researchers on the paper actually work for Mars. Mars also happens to sell, surprise, surprise, a flavanol supplement called Cocovia.

[00:12:51] Chalene Johnson : So the company that profits when you buy the capsules actually helped design and fund the study that is making you question whether you should eat bananas in your smoothie with blueberries. Okay. Now, that does not mean that this enzyme is fake. Polyphenol oxidase is real, and it really can interfere with some absorption.

[00:13:16] Chalene Johnson : Actually, the thing that interferes with absorption the most is the fact that when you age, you start to produce fewer digestive enzymes. That’s a whole ‘nother story. Actually, it isn’t a whole ‘nother story. This is a really good place for me to mention Mazimes, which is the digestive enzyme that I take with every meal.

[00:13:35] Chalene Johnson : I shouldn’t say every meal, every meal that I remember. Because what happens is as we age and we don’t produce as many digestive enzymes, then no matter what you’re eating, if your body isn’t, like, processing it correctly, if it’s not breaking it down, then you’re not absorbing those nutrients. And the one that’s probably the most important for you to think about is protein.

[00:13:57] Chalene Johnson : So yes, I make sure, and, like, I think about it when I’m having protein, and I have to get into a better habit of just taking it with every meal. So for me, habits stick when I don’t have to think about them So when I moved these capsules from my medicine cabinet into the kitchen, yeah, then I started taking them on a regular basis.

[00:14:18] Chalene Johnson : And I’ve noticed a difference in my strength, and I would have to assume in some way that has to probably do with the fact that I’m absorbing more protein, right? Like I’m, I haven’t increased my protein intake. I don’t even track my protein intake, but I am getting better gains in terms of my strength.

[00:14:38] Chalene Johnson : And anyways, so let’s talk about digestive enzymes for a second. The one I get is called Mazimes, and I have to give a shout-out to my girlfriend Natalie Jill. I know you guys listen to her podcast or if you don’t, here’s a shout-out to Natalie, Midlife Conversations. The other day Natalie was like, “You know, don’t forget who is the one that told you, Chalene, you need to get on those digestive enzymes.”

[00:15:03] Chalene Johnson : So shout-out to Natalie. She is in fact the person who… I’m like, she’s such a good researcher. I’m like, “All right, I trust you.” Anyways, you can try them, hopefully you trust me, and if they don’t work for you, guess what? 365-day money back guarantee through BiOptimizer. Grab yours by going to the link below in our show notes, or just remember this, it’s so easy you will not forget.

[00:15:26] Chalene Johnson : In fact, don’t even wait, just open up a browser right now while you’re listening to the show, chalene.com/digest, D-I-G-E-S-T. Back to Rhonda. So I was super surprised when I did see her response video, ’cause eventually she did respond to it. Okay, so here’s what she said in her response. Guys, you can add bananas to your blueberry smoothies.

[00:15:53] Chalene Johnson : However, you should know that you are gonna degrade some of the polyphenols in those blueberries. So bananas are really high in an enzyme called polyphenol oxidase. It breaks down a certain type of polyphenol called epicatechins by 80%. Does that mean all the polyphenols in your blueberries are gonna be degraded by that enzyme?

[00:16:10] Chalene Johnson : No. There’s a variety of other polyphenols that will not be touched. So it’s great if you wanna add the banana to your blueberries. By all means, do it. If you’re me and you wanna optimize as much as you can for the polyphenols, then you’re gonna swap your banana with your avocado. The avocado has a very small amount of that enzyme, similar to what you would find in the blueberries themselves.

[00:16:28] Chalene Johnson : It’s also 95% lower in sugar. It has more fiber, more potassium, more magnesium, more folate, more vitamin K, more vitamin C than the banana. So you’re getting a really host of good micronutrients. It also is high in monounsaturated fats, so there’s a little bit more calories and people may not like that. At the end of the day, the choice is yours.

[00:16:47] Chalene Johnson : I like to optimize for polyphenols. If you love bananas in your blueberry smoothie, add them. I love bananas. I eat them all the time. I just don’t add them to my blueberry smoothie. Kind of a bummer, to be honest, because Listen, when we’re speaking extemporaneously, which she was in the Mel Robbins podcast, you can make mistakes.

[00:17:06] Chalene Johnson : You can say things because you’re a human. You can say like, “You know what? I probably overstated this.” I think she could have included a lot of things she said in her response, but kind of framed in a way like, “But listen, here’s some things you should probably know about that study, and I absolutely think that there are benefits to having your bananas that I didn’t mention.”

[00:17:28] Chalene Johnson : You know what I mean? Like, the- it’s just easy to say, “I might have overstated this.” Maybe it’s not easy. Maybe she doesn’t think she overstated it. I just think in today’s day and age, with so much information, and so many people fact-checking, and so many people interpreting studies the way they wanna interpret studies, and how often if it is someone who’s very reputable and well-known, and they’re a doctor, they’ve got the credentials, we just take it at, at face value.

[00:17:54] Chalene Johnson : I know I’m been guilty of that and repeated some of those things to my audience. For example, wearing a weighted vest will improve bone density. That is overstated. I now have walked that back to say there are benefits to wearing a weighted vest, the same way there are benefits to eating a banana. The benefits of wearing a weighted vest as it pertains to bone density, there aren’t, at the time that I’m recording this, that I’m aware of, any studies to demonstrate just wearing a weighted vest while you’re walking or doing regular activities, there’s no science to prove that it, it improves bone density.

[00:18:30] Chalene Johnson : You have to be doing impact-related activities. That’s the only human studies we have that show a weighted vest can improve bone density. That’s not to say that a weighted vest, there’s not lots of advantages to wearing them. There are plenty. I think it’s really important we accept that people are human, and we also accept that just because a doctor is saying something, it doesn’t make it factual.

[00:18:55] Chalene Johnson : I think we also have to accept that Everyone has biases. You can find a study to prove anything you want. We have to be so careful about doctors because a lot of them aren’t even real doctors. We’ve talked about this before on the show, but The New York Times just spent months digging through hundreds of ads that are featuring these AI doctors, and it’s the same formula every single time.

[00:19:21] Chalene Johnson : It is a doctor, sometimes they’re Middle Eastern, sometimes they look like the doctor you go to, sometimes they’re an older woman who just looks incredibly trustworthy, and sometimes they’re a doctor that you a- already know, like Dr. Mary Claire Haver. But it’s really not her. It’s one of these companies that has cloned her.

[00:19:40] Chalene Johnson : They’ve made an AI version of her, and now she’s selling you a supplement, except it’s not actually Dr. Mary Claire Haver. It’s not actually Dr. Kelly Casperson. It’s a clone of them, and these companies are doing this illegally. One Chinese company behind a lot of these AI videos told The New York Times that they pump out…

[00:19:59] Chalene Johnson : Are you ready for this? You’re not. 1,200 AI videos a day. They charge $10 each. Their own head of AI marketing admitted that they have to be so careful with the wording, so instead of saying things like, “Lose weight,” they say, “Weight management.” They, they just soften it a little bit. But in some cases, they don’t soften it at all.

[00:20:22] Chalene Johnson : In some cases, they’re just stealing people’s identities and putting words in their mouth that they never said, and they’re endorsing products that they would never endorse. Because, like I said, these companies pop up on social media, and the second they get reported, they just delete the account, and they start another one.

[00:20:39] Chalene Johnson : They don’t care. They don’t care about followers. They just need to get this ad in front of people who have this particular condition, and it’s really easy to get the ad in front of people with this kind of condition because the algorithm is so point on. You know this. You don’t even have to be searching it online.

[00:20:52] Chalene Johnson : You can just be talking about it casually in your car with your husband, and you open up your app, and you were just talking to your husband about rosacea. You open up your app, and here’s this doctor telling you about this natural supplement that you can take for your rosacea. Anyways, all of this stuff is not going away, and it’s wild because this stuff all flies on social media.

[00:21:16] Chalene Johnson : It would never work on TV. But on Instagram and TikTok and Twitter and YouTube, all these places, they just upload it so fast they can’t even keep up with it. I know some of you are listening right now, and you’re like, “How do people fall for that?” If that’s you, if you’re like, “I would never fall for that.

[00:21:35] Chalene Johnson : I see that stuff. It seems so obvious. Why do people fall for this?” We have a responsibility, and I’m gonna give you an assignment right now. You have both family members and a few girlfriends who do fall for this . It’s your same girlfriend who bought flat tummy tea when that came out. You know what I’m saying?

[00:21:53] Chalene Johnson : Like, they just, they fall for this stuff. They fall for health claims especially. So here’s your assignment. You need to text the first three people that came to mind for you and say like, “Hey, I just wanna tell you, if you ever see an ad in social that’s from a doctor or anything else like that, and y- you’re wondering like if it’s legit, just send it to me so I can help you sort through it, ’cause I don’t, I don’t wanna see you get taken advantage of.

[00:22:15] Chalene Johnson : There’s a lot of really good AI BS out there, and I, I just would hate to see you spend money on something that could harm you.” Because in this particular story that The New York Times ran, they featured this woman who had purchased one of these supplements, right? Takes a supplement from a doctor that she thought was very credible.

[00:22:33] Chalene Johnson : If she was buying it for an autoimmune condition, a few months later, federal regulators cracked down on that same supplement because the pills were contaminated with salmonella. She got salmonella poisoning from these stupid supplements. Just be careful out there, will ya? Okay, so there’s a few, quite a few stories this week in the news related to women taking a stance online as it relates to their bodies, and all of this stems around the constant criticism that women experience when it comes to their physiques.

[00:23:10] Chalene Johnson : Okay, so let’s start with the first one, Camille Kostek, and if you’re not familiar with that name, let me just tell you, she was a former Patriots cheerleader. She kinda became well-known back in 2015 when she basically quit the squad because cheerleaders weren’t allowed to date football players, and she quit the squad to date Rob Gronkowski.

[00:23:32] Chalene Johnson : They call him Gronk. And she had to sneak her number over to him. It’s kind of a cute story, and they’ve been together ever since. That was 2015. Now, the real story that should be in the news is like, “Hey, Gronk- Get on your job, dude. Give the girl a ring. You’ve won quite a few, just put one on her finger.

[00:23:51] Chalene Johnson : Anyways, she’s an SI, Sports Illustrated swimsuit model, and I think she’s done it, like, nine times. What’s interesting is she won the swimsuit model search back in 2018 herself. She did it by, like, filming herself in Malibu. I mean, it’s really kind of an interesting story how she did that. And now she’s been on the cover nine times.

[00:24:15] Chalene Johnson : I have no idea how many times she’s been featured in their live Sports Illustrated Swim Week that they do a lot of times here in Miami, but she was just in the most recent one here in Miami. And when she did that, the comments in social media are just rude. People are saying the worst things. They’re talking about her body, and, “Wow, did she gain some weight?

[00:24:39] Chalene Johnson : Is she gonna announce that she’s pregnant? Is she gonna have that baby out of bedw-” They’re ridiculous, and she obviously has a beautiful body. She’s obviously a beautiful model. Sports Illustrated is not giving her, like, a mercy pass to have her on the stage. But the commentary around her body is so ridiculous that she posted a TikTok this week.

[00:25:00] Chalene Johnson : Okay, have you heard that trending audio where it’s, like, a saxophone playing and that saxophone just keeps getting, like, louder and louder, and then it’s usually some kind of sad caption? And her caption on her video was, “Me wondering when I’m gonna stop opening up my phone to losers having conversations about my body.”

[00:25:20] Chalene Johnson : And then she added, “Go outside and get some sun.” She’s 34 years old, and by the way, she’s always been a curvier model. Okay, so I wanna play you this interview she did with People Magazine, talking about what it was like growing up and just her body image, et cetera. Let me play this for you.

[00:25:38] Clip: I remember being 15 years old and starting to embrace my hips and my curves because of the women that I was finding in the magazine.

[00:25:44] Clip: And so when I got the opportunity to shoot and, you know, insecurities would start to creep in, I was like, “Wait, but I- I’m gonna be that girl that I looked up to myself for someone else.” And that has been the most rewarding thing that I could’ve never prepared for being a part of this. And I grew up in a house without a scale.

[00:26:02] Clip: Like, I realized it had to happen the way it did because I- I almost gave up on pursuing a modeling career because at 27 years old, when I got the cover, I was getting a lot of nos, or you need to lose weight, or you need to lose inches off of your hips, your thighs, and your bicep, and I was like, “But why isn’t this enough?”

[00:26:17] Chalene Johnson : Yeah.

[00:26:18] Clip: And SI, to me, was that you are enough. And then I didn’t realize the ripple effect that it would have, that me going on the cover as I was, not overpreparing, not overtraining and undereating- Yeah … and then show up how I was, was going to help other people step into their own.

[00:26:35] Chalene Johnson : And it got me thinking about something.

[00:26:38] Chalene Johnson : There’s another person who’s been receiving so many ridiculously cruel, mean comments, and that is Charli D’Amelio We’ve talked about her many times on the show. She’s probably the most famous person on TikTok, or at least at one point she was. I don’t know how old she is, like maybe 25 years old now. And here’s what got me thinking about Charli.

[00:27:03] Chalene Johnson : So Charli, I just caught a video of her saying, “Okay, , you’ve been all leaving rude comments about my weight, my weight gain on my socials, and today’s day one of the gym. Like, get ready.” You know, she’s just kinda like clapping back. But here’s what made me think about Charli, is there are massive amounts of people leaving rude comments under her videos, making video clips, but not showing their faces.

[00:27:33] Chalene Johnson : So making snarky videos where they’re showing, like, her weight before and her weight after, but no one’s showing their face. However, when someone loses a lot of weight, which at one point was the D’Amelio sisters, there were lots of rumors that the two of them were experiencing or they appeared to have eating disorders.

[00:27:55] Chalene Johnson : People were making videos, stitching videos, where they’re going… When I say people, women, making videos, going live on camera, and talking about their weight and the negative impact that it can have on other women, talking about the fact that they’re dangerously thin, and these women are supposedly examples to other women, and how dangerous it is to be, quote, promoting eating disorders or disordered eating or being dangerously thin.

[00:28:21] Chalene Johnson : And I just wanna say, I have made those kinds of videos myself, and I have had a moment of self-awareness, a realization of the hypocrisy that I have made videos where I’m showing somebody’s body, usually a celebrity. I don’t think I’ve ever done it for an influencer. Usually it’s, like, a very, very well-known celebrity.

[00:28:45] Chalene Johnson : I try to or encourage my team, I don’t wanna blame my team, but like I’m saying, we always try to blur out faces, so you’re just seeing bodies. You can see that it’s somebody on the red carpet, and then I’ll make commentary about, like, “Let’s not let this become a trend again. We’ve been here. We’ve done this.

[00:29:02] Chalene Johnson : We’ve lived through this. Ladies, muscle first. Like, let’s not do this.” But it’s me, and I’m comfortable on camera, and I’ve made these videos showing other women’s bodies, and yeah, I might have blurred out their faces, but you know who it is. And yeah, they might not be average citizens. They might be celebrities, so you might consider them fair game, but it, they’re still humans.

[00:29:22] Chalene Johnson : And I have made these videos, and I’ve made these videos because I had convinced myself that this is what’s in the best interest of the public. Like, women need to know, like, this should not be the beauty standard. And I believe that to be true, but before I really dig into my own hypocrisy, I wanna mention another story that’s in the news, and it is Ariana Grande.

[00:29:46] Chalene Johnson : So Ariana Grande’s PR team this week came out and announced, “After the Eternal Sunshine tour concludes, Ariana is gonna be stepping back from visibility for the foreseeable future. This decision was made many months ago and it’s rooted in her desire to end this chapter healthier and happier after years of nonstop work and endless ongoing public scrutiny.”

[00:30:14] Chalene Johnson : Okay, so when that happened earlier or last week, people freaked out. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, so h- here we go. We’ve got proof. It’s her PR team saying like they’re alluding to the fact that she’s probably gonna go into treatment, like she’s stepping away.” And then as you know, she has just been ruthlessly discussed in social media.

[00:30:34] Chalene Johnson : I’ve talked about her. We’ve broken it down many times here on the show, and I, I think it’s very, very complicated for Ariana Grande, who is by the way, an incredibly freaking talented woman. I mean, when Wicked, the first Wicked came out, it was just weird. Nobody could stop talking about it. Okay, so back to Ariana.

[00:30:54] Chalene Johnson : They make this statement, and like I said, there’s not just hundreds or thousands, there’s hundreds of thousands, I’m sure it’s close to a million videos just about Ariana’s weight. And since she launched this Eternal Sunshine tour, the speculation and the videos and the social media specifically about her weight, not how amazing her voice is, not her performance, none of it.

[00:31:21] Chalene Johnson : It’s all about, holy cow, this girl looks like she’s going to die. I’ve gotten caught up in that myself, and then my feed would feed me more content about Ariana and these images were like scary, et cetera. And so when her PR team came out and made the statement, people are like, “Okay, she’s finally admitting that she needs to get the help, or at least she’s stepping out of public scrutiny.

[00:31:46] Chalene Johnson : She’s taking a break.” And the statement immediately sparked headlines suggesting that all of the criticism, uh, from this tour had just become too much for her, and that she was retreating and maybe getting treatment because of it. So then, I think it was yesterday, Ariana addressed the speculation from her concert live on stage in front of her fans, and she said to her fans, “Listen, I wanna set the record straight.

[00:32:12] Chalene Johnson : You know, the statement has been made and it didn’t come from me Personally, she kind of acknowledged that it came from her team, but, like, she didn’t say it, and she said, “I just need everyone to know that this was not a reactive recent decision. This has been planned long ago, long before it ever hit the headlines, and I just wanna remind everybody that,” she said, quote, “Multiple things can be true at once.”

[00:32:41] Chalene Johnson : Now, we won’t know exactly what she means by multiple things could be true at once, but my guess is that the public scrutiny has been painful, and I think that’s a pretty accurate guess, especially based on her most recent video release. It’s called Petal, and I want you to watch it. You can s- find it on YouTube.

[00:33:02] Chalene Johnson : Can I break it down for you? I want you to watch it, and then I want you to tell me if, after you see it, if you think my interpretation is way off base or on base because it was watching this video that woke me up and changed my view and made me see myself as hypocritical. Okay, so in this video, it starts, first of all, with a parental advisory warning, and I don’t think that’s insignificant, and I also don’t think it’s because there’s a scene where a cartoon rendition of her is seen taking a chainsaw and chopping people’s heads off.

[00:33:41] Chalene Johnson : It’s not because of that. That’s not even gory and graphic. It’s very, like, cartoony. I think the parental advisory warning, in my opinion, I’m just reading into the subliminal messages in this video, is to say everyone has been commenting she is a role model for young women. Young women are watching her videos.

[00:34:02] Chalene Johnson : Young women are seeing her on social media. Young women are going to her concerts, and I think a lot of that is because she started out on Disney, and so there’s this belief that she’s still a young Disney person and that she’s still marketing to 11-year-olds. And I think by putting a parental advisory warning, like, I think that’s her, like, very subtle people pleaser way, a subtle nod of saying like, “Hey, parents, you’re in charge of what influences your children.”

[00:34:32] Chalene Johnson : I think it’s why it’s there So then she walks, in the video, it’s like behind the scenes of someone who’s trying to make it in entertainment, and she walks into what looks like an audition. On the walls it says, “Fame, Incorporated.” And immediately I notice something else. So there’s all these casting directors, and they’re sitting almost completely in the dark.

[00:34:57] Chalene Johnson : Like, you really can’t make out their faces. They are in the shadows. Like, you really can’t see them. But yet, you know, she and anyone else who’s auditioning is in the bright light, so all their flaws are exposed. It’s like bright light. You can see everything. It’s like they’re exposed to these creepy men that are in the shadows.

[00:35:17] Chalene Johnson : And so maybe the shadows are meant to say, maybe it’s meant to represent, like, the anonymous people who comment and criticize public figures. My take on it is, is it’s a little bit of that, and it’s also a little bit of, like, how evil things are done in the dark, and how there’s all these, like, Hollywood figures and producers and executives and it’s the Epstein kind of things and, and they’re running things in the shadows, and there’s these young women who get wrapped up into it, and they’re shiny and bright and sweet and genuine and pure and in the bright light, and Hollywood is evil.

[00:35:58] Chalene Johnson : And I think that was incredibly intentional. Then behind the men is this, like, big painting, okay? I’ve, like, watched this video so many times because… Well, I’ll keep going. So there’s this big painting behind her, and in the painting there’s, like, all these cowboys. It’s almost like a, a really long painting like The Last Supper, but it’s all these cowboys, and they’re trying to lasso what looks like a, like a, a bull that’s, like, refusing to be heard And that felt to me very symbolic, right?

[00:36:31] Chalene Johnson : Like the strong, independent animal that all these people are trying to control. And the message starts to become, I think, painfully clear because each time she goes to an audition, you can see the written feedback from the audition, and each time there’s a different critique. Each time there’s a different verdict of why she doesn’t get the role and how they want her to come back.

[00:36:57] Chalene Johnson : So sometimes it might be, “Oh, you’re too plain. You’re not sexy. You need to lose some weight. You need to lose a few pounds.” But every time on the feedback form, they stamp the words, “Not good enough.” And then they tell her what she needs to work on, and then she shows up to the next audition and they tell her something else she needs to work on, and then they stamp it, “Not good enough.”

[00:37:22] Chalene Johnson : The message there is like, it doesn’t matter what you do and how you change, and it’s always about appearance. They never talk about her voice. They never talk about her dance moves. They just talk about her appearance, and it’s never good enough And then there’s a scene, this is really interesting, where she’s wearing an exaggerated chest, like a prosthetic breast that, like, drag queens wear.

[00:37:49] Chalene Johnson : I don’t know if you guys saw the movie with, that was about Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee. Well, the actress who played Pamela Anderson in the movie, like, does all these nude scenes, and the actress who played Pamela is actually very small-breasted, so she wore this prosthetic piece. And these prosthetic pieces, I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a drag show, they are so good.

[00:38:13] Chalene Johnson : They are so good. I mean, if you ever wanted to just look like you had some tatas without having to do a surgery, I don’t know. I, I wonder sometimes why more women don’t just get tho- Like, they look amazing. They look absolutely amazing. So anyways, there’s a scene in the Petal video where Ariana is wearing the prosthetic breast, but it looks completely real, right?

[00:38:40] Chalene Johnson : And that’s the only part of her body that is different is just the breasts, and I could not help but think to myself, “Oh my gosh, she looks healthy. She looks like a normal weight just because of the breasts.” And it made me think to myself, how many women are we giving up… We think to them, oh, ourselves, “Oh, she’s a normal weight,” or, “She hasn’t lost too much weight,” simply because she has breast implants, which aren’t gonna go away.

[00:39:06] Chalene Johnson : They, they, they might get a little bit smaller because the breast tissue around it gets smaller, but anyways, that’s a side note. I do just find it really interesting that the comments under her video, so many of the people said that scene, that’s not her. That’s not her body. And so then I went back and re-watched that scene, and I’m like, “That’s her body, just that’s not her chest.”

[00:39:26] Chalene Johnson : Each scene, these women, all different shapes and sizes, et cetera, are in the waiting room, waiting for their audition, you know, whatever the next audition is, and you see them initially, they’re all moving in unison. Imagine, like, a large waiting room, and it’s, uh, U-shaped, and there’s chairs all the way around the border of the room, like folding chairs, and every girl’s in a folding chair, and when one girl gets up to take her turn in the audition room, everyone moves over in unison over one chair, and then they cross their legs in unison.

[00:40:00] Chalene Johnson : They’re doing everything in unison. They’re doing everything to, like, conform. But eventually, it’s like they just are done conforming. Okay, so every time she gets this feedback that she’s n- you know, she needs to change this about her appearance or that about her, her appearance, she never defends herself She simply keeps coming back, trying to make whatever changes they’ve told her they want her to make, and every single time they find something new to criticize.

[00:40:28] Chalene Johnson : And, you know, obviously this is a metaphor. This is a very personal piece of art for Ariana, and I think it’s such a powerful metaphor for so many women. It’s like, again, like the D’Amelio sisters who were completely criticized for being too thin and they’re role models. And now they’re, at least, uh, Charli, the l- latest video I saw was being criticized for being a healthy weight, literally a healthy weight.

[00:40:54] Chalene Johnson : I mean, can’t look at someone and know if they’re healthy, but you just keep seeing the stamp on that page, not good enough. And it made me realize, like, how many women, no matter what they do, feel like their appearance is not good enough And then they tell her in the video, like, “What, do you have a personality disorder?

[00:41:20] Chalene Johnson : Do you have some kind of a personality disorder?” And to me, I don’t know if that was her l- playing off the words disorder. She didn’t say eating disorder. They said personality disorder. We miss the old you. And I don’t think that’s just about Ariana. I, I think this happens when the public becomes convinced that they know someone better than they know themselves, and they don’t allow them to evolve.

[00:41:45] Chalene Johnson : I think that’s worth discussing. I think it is really sad that no one talks about her music, that she is probably one of the mo- I mean, can you think of another 30-something female performer who has as much talent as Ariana? Like, she’s un-freaking-believable. But the only thing anyone ever talks about in probably the last five to 10 years, or at least the last five years, is about her weight.

[00:42:14] Chalene Johnson : And it made me realize… And, you know, she’s working constantly, constantly, constantly, right? Like, just from one show to the next show to the next show, and she was scheduled to go on Broadway to do, I can’t think of the name of the show. It’ll come to me. But because she’s taking this break, she will not be doing this Broadway show, because she was supposed to finish her live concert series and then go right into Broadway, which is two performances a day every single day for, like, 30 days now that she’s taking this break.

[00:42:43] Chalene Johnson : And it’s possible that this break had to be announced now because they were about to go into promotion for the Broadway show. I don’t know. Sunday in the Park. Sunday in the Park with George, that’s the name of the musical. So anyways, when I was doing a little bit of intel, like what is this musical about, the musical is actually about an artist struggling with the pressures of creating, like, authentic work and also meeting everybody’s expectations.

[00:43:10] Chalene Johnson : Isn’t that ironic? And, like, the perfect role for her. But also, isn’t it just the perfect decision that she’s decided to step away? Isn’t that, like, the embodiment of the whole message of the musical? I think so. And if you think about women with eating disorders, and I’m not saying Ariana has one, but that has certainly been the speculation.

[00:43:32] Chalene Johnson : And one thing I do know about eating disorders is it’s not about the food, and it’s not about wanting to lose weight initially. It’s about control. It’s very common for women, and young girls too, who feel like, “I need to please everyone, and so therefore I cannot speak up. I don’t want to upset anyone.

[00:43:53] Chalene Johnson : Everyone’s telling me what to do. I have no control over my life, but the one thing that I do have control over is my body.” And it is an act of defiance. It’s an act of control. I mean, how can she feel like she has any control over her life, her image, her voice, her artistry, any of it? And how does this relate to my hypocrisy?

[00:44:19] Chalene Johnson : Well, I started thinking to myself, why is it so many people are very, very comfortable making videos showing their face, myself included, about women who have become what we feel dangerously too thin? But yet, if someone has gained, say, 150 pounds, nobody would dare dream of making a video or suggesting that this person is a role model, and they’re doing a disservice to young women by being overweight.

[00:44:54] Chalene Johnson : And let me tell you that that really made me wonder, like, why is that? Why is it weight gain carries such a strong social taboo? And I think part of it is because obesity has been the target of, like, decades of stigma and discrimination, and people just recognize that criticizing someone for weight gain is cruel.

[00:45:19] Chalene Johnson : That is body shaming. And as a result, like, you know, public figures and brands and creators have been deeply criticized for anything that could be misconstrued as being critical of someone for weight gain. But thinness is culturally idolized in many contexts, so it creates this, like, paradox where people– we celebrate thinness until someone appears too thin, at which point the conversation flips.

[00:45:50] Chalene Johnson : It flips from admiration to alarm. Now, why is that, right? And so the, the message is like, “Oh, you know, anorexia is a deadly disease.” True. But isn’t it interesting that obesity kills four million people a year? Let me say that number again. Four million people a year worldwide. Anorexia kills roughly 40,000, so it’s 100 times more people are likely to die from something related to obesity.

[00:46:24] Chalene Johnson : Yet we feel far more comfortable publicly speculating about thinness than publicly criticizing weight gain. And I think, okay, that makes sense, but the nuance to keep in mind is that And I’m not saying either one is right, but I do notice that there’s an anger in women and the shift that happens where we don’t think of someone when they get too thin as being a victim.

[00:46:57] Chalene Johnson : We don’t think of Ariana as a victim. Suddenly she’s the villain because she’s extremely thin. And why does it happen? I mean, she’s at risk. This is not something she’s probably intended to do. So why does it bring up this, like, anger or this, this reaction? It activates a psychological threat, I think, for women and for myself.

[00:47:20] Chalene Johnson : Like, I’m admitting I have to be aware. Like, why would I have been okay? Why was it okay for me to make a video showing women that were extremely thin? Yet common sense and my understanding of health is such that I know being overweight, not, not even just clinically obese, just being obese, is far more likely to lead to all-cause mortality than being too thin Sure, it could affect your bone density.

[00:47:50] Chalene Johnson : It could affect a lot of different things, but the likelihood of dying from a disease related to obesity is much, much, much higher than simply being too thin. So why is it we feel differently? It’s more acceptable to criticize women when they get too thin. I think that we have to ask ourselves, what does that person’s body say about mine?

[00:48:18] Chalene Johnson : How does it make me feel about my body? And I can’t speak to you and I can’t speak to any other creator. I can only speak about myself. And when I see a woman who has wasted away her muscle and has become way too thin, what it makes me feel like is that I’m supposed to conform to that too, and that somebody wants to control me, and that somebody thinks that whatever weight I’m at, that, like, I’m supposed to be…

[00:48:46] Chalene Johnson : In my subconscious, my subconscious, I think, tells me, “Oh, here you go. You’re gonna fall into that place where I felt so controlled and so criticized and so unhealthy, and nobody cared,” and that everyone kept just saying, “Oh, you look great. Body goals. Can you l- lose a few more pounds?” And it makes me feel this, like, anger and rage and threat.

[00:49:08] Chalene Johnson : And I think it’s just easier to tolerate anger than it is to tolerate inadequacy. Because if I’m being all the way honest, when I was in the consumer fitness space, I felt inadequate. I felt like, because I was being told it wasn’t enough, like I- you, you need to do more. And so when I see bodies like that, it can trigger that same feeling, like, “Oh, you’re not gonna be successful.

[00:49:39] Chalene Johnson : People are gonna see you as undisciplined. People are gonna see you as undesirable.” And then it’s easier and it’s more socially acceptable to say, “I’m worried about this person. We’re worried about her health.” And it’s like it’s a moral high ground to say, “We’re worried about her.” When we place it under the umbrella of care and concern, and we’re like, “Oh, she looks terrible,” or, “This is, this is just so dangerous,” it puts us in this, like, position of, like, a moral high ground, like a sense of superiority, right?

[00:50:12] Chalene Johnson : The reason why I think we only see, primarily, we- I shouldn’t say only, but primarily we see women talking about other women’s bodies, especially other women who’ve gotten dramatically thin, and especially related to the GLP-1 era, is that some women experience it as Like the power quietly abandoning this agreement that we all had.

[00:50:34] Chalene Johnson : Like girls, we’re sticking together, right? Like we’re not, we’re not gonna let society do this to us again, right? We’re not gonna let the patriarchy, we’re not gonna let the manosphere tell us that we need to be thin and insignificant and invisible. And so there’s this like perception that one of these stars or someone we know is like betraying us.

[00:50:55] Chalene Johnson : Like wait, why are you giving into this? Why are we making extreme thinness the mark of beauty? And I think I just have to say this, that does not mean that when you express concern over somebody that it’s fake or that it comes from a place of anger or it’s because it- their weight makes you feel inadequate.

[00:51:16] Chalene Johnson : That’s certainly not true. I mean, there have been people in my life who I can tell you it had nothing to do with me feeling inadequate. It was genuine concern for their health, their mental health, their wellbeing because 40,000 people who die every year of anorexia is nothing to sneeze at. And some women have a very personal experience with anorexia.

[00:51:40] Chalene Johnson : You, you can recog- I can recognize warning signs of eating disorders. I can see them. I can smell them. I can sniff it out in other people. I, I can see another orthorexia. I can see disordered eating. I c- I can see warning signs. Sometimes it is concerning and sometimes it’s just like, oh, I just kinda like note it and I, I realize like, okay, I’m, I’m noting it, but is this person truly in danger or does it bother me?

[00:52:09] Chalene Johnson : I mean, there’s like a few people who I know peripherally who I have known for years that they have disordered eating. They have a very unhealthy relationship with food and their bodies, and it’s weird. Those people, for the most part, I just… Like it doesn’t feel like that’s a threat to me But if I’m being honest, when it’s, like, a celebrity, it does sometimes trigger this subconscious belief that this is the expectation for all of us, that, like, it, it’s coming for me, and soon I’m gonna be criticized.

[00:52:47] Chalene Johnson : I’m, I’m gonna go to the audition, and I’m, I’m gonna be told I’m not good enough. And I’ve had the opposite happen. I’ve had… I mean, I remember when I would go to these events for Beachbody, and there’d be, you know, thousands of people, and they’d take pictures with each one of the trainers. And so often people thought they were giving you a compliment on your body, and they just didn’t even realize what they were saying was so hurtful.

[00:53:17] Chalene Johnson : They didn’t realize how it sounded. Like, they would go, “You know what? I love you. I love you because you’re not super thin like so-and-so.” And you’d be like, “Okay, I know that was meant as a compliment, but in my brain, I just heard you call me fat.” I was riding in an elevator down to teach one of the workouts for, like, thousands of people, right?

[00:53:41] Chalene Johnson : And so we’re in this packed elevator, and I was, like, kind of crammed in the back. And I’m also 5’2″, so, you know, no one can see me. And the elevator was crammed, and there was, uh, women in the front, and they were discussing how they had seen me in one of the workouts, and they were so excited to talk about the fact that they saw cellulite on the back of my thighs.

[00:54:05] Chalene Johnson : And they were like, “That was such a relief.” And I was like, wow. They didn’t know I was in the elevator, and I know they meant that as a positive, but they also were talking about somebody else’s body, another trainer’s body, who didn’t have cellulite. And, and I know they were saying, like, how it was so, it was such a relief to see that I, quote, “wasn’t perfect.”

[00:54:28] Chalene Johnson : But I’m standing in this, back of this elevator going, “See? You don’t belong.” Like, girl, what are you– why are you in the front of all these people teaching these workouts when you have cellulite? Do you see what I’m s- Like, it’s just women’s bodies, oh, they’re never, ever good enough. And I can’t speak on behalf of Black women or brown women, but I have enough Black girlfriends, and we’ve talked about the difference in the way women who, you know, their Black girlfriends talk about weight, and how white girls talk about weight.

[00:55:03] Chalene Johnson : And when it… A- and I mean, for most young white women, it’s around age five that you feel like, “Oh, I better go on a diet.” I mean, if you ask most women, they remember being awa- white women being aware that they need to be smaller by about age five. All this to say that I think that women are not only afraid that extreme thinness is something that means that person is unwell, right?

[00:55:33] Chalene Johnson : I think we are also reacting to how other people’s bodies make us feel about our own. So then how do we explain when, when trolls do make comments about women who have gained weight, or women who are curvier and on the runway? How do we explain that? Well, first of all, if you look at those comments, so many of them are men.

[00:55:58] Chalene Johnson : A lot more than the comments that are rude about being ultra-thin. That says a lot. Secondly, I think that it is a case of punching up. Are you familiar with that term? When we see someone who we think is better than us, that we’re jealous of, who’s more beautiful, has more followers, is walking the runway, is rocking millions and millions of followers on TikTok or Instagram and, and you’re not, their success makes you feel inadequate, makes some people feel inadequate.

[00:56:32] Chalene Johnson : So then to see any type of a flaw or a crack in the surface of perfection, it’s an opportunity to make themselves feel better by poking fun, by picking them apart, by criticizing them. So for the moment, that person might feel a little bit better about themselves. Like, “Hey, let me just point out to the world that this person is imperfect by somebody’s standards.”

[00:56:59] Chalene Johnson : I’m sure you’re familiar with the phrase, confident people inspire, insecure people compete. Happy people compliment, unhappy people criticize. Hurt people hurt people. Healed people help people. Happy people don’t have time to hate, they’re too busy enjoying their own lives. Anyways, I’m just trying to be self-aware.

[00:57:21] Chalene Johnson : I’m not perfect. I’m very catty. I’m still gonna gossip with my girlfriends about so-and-so’s body. I’m going to. I just am. I am that . And I’m gonna say, “Oh my God, did you see her? Wow, she’s not looking too good.” I’m gonna say that with my girlfriends, okay? Because I’m, I’m a girl. It is part of the way that we make sense of what is healthy and what’s unhealthy and what’s acceptable and what’s unacceptable.

[00:57:48] Chalene Johnson : Like, uh, and I think that’s okay. But what’s not okay is public commentary on my behalf, in my opinion. I, I’ve just… I don’t… at the moment, I don’t plan on commenting about women’s bodies without more context, because we cannot deny the fact that obesity kills a hell of a lot more people than anorexia, ultra-thinness.

[00:58:17] Chalene Johnson : And we don’t necessarily know that anyone who’s ultra-thin has anorexia per se. They might just be thinner than what makes us comfortable. Yes, anorexia is exceptionally deadly. I, you know, don’t wanna gloss over that. And if you think you are Or someone you love is suffering, I’m gonna put some information down below of resources where you can reach out for help.

[00:58:48] Chalene Johnson : But we cannot gloss over the fact that obesity related diseases claim roughly 100 times more lives every year, because obesity affects so many more people. You know, and yes, I, I know that anorexia has one of the highest mortality rates of mental illnesses, but obesity related complications kill far more people each year.

[00:59:14] Chalene Johnson : And, and that we know. So I’m not saying either is good. I’m just saying I wanna be more self… I’m trying to be more aware of why it makes us feel a certain way and why people, especially women, are triggered when other women lose weight. And I think it also explains why there’s this weird anger that some people have around GLP-1s.

[00:59:41] Chalene Johnson : And there’s this like, it’s strange, that’s dividing us too. I don’t like that. I don’t like that. Anyways, what do you think about all of this? I’m sure I got a lot of this wrong. I’m sure you’ve got some opinions, and I’d love to hear them, as long as you’re nice about it. Like, use good manners. Leave your comments wherever you listen to the show.

[01:00:01] Chalene Johnson : You can leave them on Spotify. You can leave them inside the Patreon app. I have so many other things I was supposed to talk to you about today, like major things that are happening in the news that impact you. So please tune in on Friday, because I’m gonna fit some of those in on Friday, and I’m sure some new things will happen in between then.

[01:00:17] Chalene Johnson : But again, in the meantime, share your thoughts with me. I love you. I mean it, and I will talk to you soon.